An Indian on a 100' pole at 5th & York, today being near Callowhill to Vine.

[Colin P. Varga]

There is still no resolution to the Indian Pole mystery... Other than a few grainy pictures, we have little to go on. Again, since about 1920, not a word has been mentioned or written about it. The pole seems to have outlasted the Indian figure by several years; there are some faint images of the pole, but not a single one of the figure.
Once more, I ask: Did it fall down? Was it removed because it was unsafe? If so, where are the newspaper articles describing it when it was removed? Or mentions in books? The disappearance of such a large thing--a local landmark that was around around for about 100 years--would certainly have generated some comment, despite the fact that it was removed in the roaring 20s (probably before 1926; see Early Philadelphia: Its People, Life and Progress below) and was in a then-industrial neighborhood.
Morley and other sources indicated that local businessmen returned the Indian figure to the top of a new pole after the city had removed it in 1894 and apparently placed it in a dump after the older pole had become unsafe. By the 20s, the replacement pole was probably on its way out. And there would have been no city attention given to painting or otherwise maintaining this pole, as it was privately purchased and was by then in a desolate neighborhood. ...

Who's to say that this isn't in the AtwaterKent or another institution in Philadelphia. But even the books in which is it mentioned don't have a photo or illustration. This all leads to one conclusion that this figure wasn't very important and therefore no newspaper story of it being taken down.

Also, there seems to be an assumption that Philadelphians cared about this item or their history in general in the 1920's or earlier. If that were true the house that Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence or the President's House wouldn't have been torn down. I wonder if those were news worthy?

In the 1920's how would a reporter sell this historic flagpole story to an editor? And would readers want to read it? And would the story have been over-shadowed by other stories that day for space in the paper.

The image of the Ben Franklin Br. with a flagpole with something on top of it in 1926 is the most intriguing possibility of what could have happened to the flagpole. If this were the same flagpole it would have only been moved a few blocks from it's original location. When the bridge was opened there must have been newspapers describing the event and location.

[CHIOSSO]

Morley's original story about the Indian pole appeared in the Philadelphia Evening Public Ledger between 1918 and 1919.

[Colin P. Varga]

Morley's original story about the Indian pole appeared in the Philadelphia Evening Public Ledger between 1918 and 1919.

Slow newsday? Maybe nobody read that story and that's why there wasn't one when the pole came down. Maybe the news was significantly different the day the pole came down.

[CHIOSSO]

On the Old York Road near Noble Street there was a tall flag pole with the figure of an Indian upon the top It was the custom of the fire companies to take their engine there to test it by seeing if they could throw a stream of water to the top of the Indian Pole as it was called These exhibitions attracted crowds of people and are remembered by persons now living The rows between rival fire companies at a fire became characteristics of the time and many of these fights for priority took precedence over the fire in the attentions of the companies Some of the fire companies notably the United States were composed chiefly of Quakers and it was a curious sight to see these enthusiastic Friends rushing to a fire in their brightly coloured tin hats and plain coats

Early Philadelphia: its people, life and progress. 1917

[Colin P. Varga]

On the Old York Road near Noble Street there was a tall flag pole with the figure of an Indian upon the top It was the custom of the fire companies to take their engine there to test it by seeing if they could throw a stream of water to the top of the Indian Pole as it was called These exhibitions attracted crowds of people and are remembered by persons now living The rows between rival fire companies at a fire became characteristics of the time and many of these fights for priority took precedence over the fire in the attentions of the companies Some of the fire companies notably the United States were composed chiefly of Quakers and it was a curious sight to see these enthusiastic Friends rushing to a fire in their brightly coloured tin hats and plain coats

Early Philadelphia: its people, life and progress. 1917

Two things, first it's an article about fire companies. Secondly, it refers to the flagpole in the past tense. Fire sells. Flagpoles probably not.

[CHIOSSO]

One thing I did not post in response to you.

[Colin P. Varga]

I was looking through this 1833 directory when I found another piece of the puzzle. The connection to Tammany and that it probably has nothing to do with "Tammany Hall" in NYC. According to this directory there was a Tammany St. in the neighborhood of this weather vane and intersection:

Tammany st, E from 318, Old York, road, to
N. 2nd1 bet Noble and Green

The Philadelphia Directory : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

[Moonraker]

This is one for Zark. But take a look at PhilaGeoHistory Maps Viewer for the 1843 map. Noble St. is clearly well below SG and Green is above SG St.

Could Tammany have been the name of Buttonwood, when it transited into the Northern Liberties District, ie. east of 318 York?


Another point made by the 1843 map is that Spring Garden District & the Northern Liberties share a boundary-border being 6th Street.
Zark once pointed out that SG street ended at 6th until the 1900's.
Also, per the map NL's southern border is Vine Street. It's northern boundary with Kensington seems to be the Arrimingo Canal.
Please clarify, was there an Arrimingo Creek, since that boundary meanders N-S as it continues west from the canal.

Also in that 1843 map, just south of Noble, about 6th, what is the squigley line running east-west? a row of trees or a cliff?

[Titus]

Was the Aramingo Canal the same as Cohocksink Creek?

Sixth Street was the border between SG & NL but the main road thereabouts was 5th Street or Old York Road. When I was a kid I knew an old German fellow from Olney that still called it Fünf Strasse. I think SG was extended to the Delaware in the 1920s.

[Titus]

Was the Aramingo Canal the same as Cohocksink Creek?

Sixth Street was the border between SG & NL but the main road thereabouts was 5th Street or Old York Road. When I was a kid I knew an old German fellow from Olney that still called it Fünf Strasse. I think SG was extended to the Delaware in the 1920s.

[thoth]

Was the Aramingo Canal the same as Cohocksink Creek?

Sixth Street was the border between SG & NL but the main road thereabouts was 5th Street or Old York Road. When I was a kid I knew an old German fellow from Olney that still called it Fünf Strasse. I think SG was extended to the Delaware in the 1920s.

Pretty sure the Aramingo Canal was an abortive attempt to build an artificial canal near the 95 Girard ramp, may have fed off of a different stream, not sure. Cohocksink was a creek that divided part of NL from Kensington and relatively distant from where the Aramingo canal was.

[ZARK]

Northern Liberties Map showing the boundaries and yes, Buttonwood street was Tammany street between 2nd street and York Ave. before the consolidation, as shown here in this 1851 Library Co. lithograph of York Ave and Tammany street(Buttonwood street)... From the Temple Univ. Urban Archives site, this ca.1920s photo shows a narrow Spring Garden street looking east from 6th street towards 5th. all the houses along 5th street eventually were demolishes to make way for the building of Spring Garden street through Northern liberties... go to the Urban Archives site and you can do some pretty cool zooming in on that photo....Here....http://digital.library.temple.edu/cd...5/id/551/rec/3

[Colin P. Varga]

Northern Liberties Map showing the boundaries and yes, Buttonwood street was Tammany street between 2nd street and York Ave. before the consolidation, as shown here in this 1851 Library Co. lithograph of York Ave and Tammany street(Buttonwood street)... ...

Just to clarify, this "Tammany Hall" in Philly would have not been associated with Boss Tweed in NYC in any way except that Tweed's organization was headquartered in the New York "Tammany Hall". By the time Tweed comes along Tammany societies had pretty much disbanded but the name Tammany Hall was still used for the name of the building where he was HQ'd.

[ZARK]

Just to clarify, this "Tammany Hall" in Philly would have not been associated with Boss Tweed in NYC in any way except that Tweed's organization was headquartered in the New York "Tammany Hall". By the time Tweed comes along Tammany societies had pretty much disbanded but the name Tammany Hall was still used for the name of the building where he was HQ'd.

My take, it was just a tap room that used the same name, being it was located on Tammany street in the day. Also that same building is here on the right of this ca.1964 photo....

[Titus]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579793_269225346531720_1227292014_n.jpg[/img]

That's the old Episcopal Church of the Advent on the left. Before WW II it housed a Polish Episcopalian congregation.

[Colin P. Varga]

My take, it was just a tap room that used the same name, being it was located on Tammany street in the day...

The Tammany Hall in Philly and NYC were probably associated as Tammany Societies were popular from the time of the Revolution to about 1830 and then died out. What did they do? Celebrate Saint Tammany Day, May 1! And probably help with various charities, and probably have a good ale or two as well.

[nanyika]

The Tammany Hall in Philly and NYC were probably associated as Tammany Societies were popular from the time of the Revolution to about 1830 and then died out. What did they do? Celebrate Saint Tammany Day, May 1! And probably help with various charities, and probably have a good ale or two as well.

The Tammany societies started in Philadelphia in 1772. In the atmosphere of the Revolution and its aftermath, they spread throughout the country (to New York and even to small towns), as an expression of popular sentiment for democracy and liberty. The maypole, which American patriots had converted into a "liberty pole" (like the one at 4th & Wood), was a central part of their celebrations. The former King of the May, a symbolic figure that went back to pagan times in England, was Americanized into "King Tammany," and later, "Saint Tammany." "Tammany" was a reference to Chief Tammenend (died cc. 1701) of the Lenape people, who allegedly signed the treaty with William Penn.

The societies dedicated themselves to the fight for democratic rights and American independence. In the early Republic, there was overlap in purpose and membership with the Democratic Societies that sprang up around the country, and the movement eventually morphed into the Democratic Republican Party, which supported Jefferson as president. But from what I gather, Colin P. Varga is right that the societies were basically social groups and drinking clubs. They had their own rituals, which were derived from a mythological and romantic interpretation of American Indian societies.

[LedZep2147]

I was able to ask my grandmother if she remembered an Indian on a pole at 4th an Wood Street.

To give you some background on my family's history in the area, my Grandmother was born in 1926, and lived on the 300 block of Wood Street, 500 block of Vine Street, then bought a house in 1955 on Lawrence Street. She finally sold her house in 2000.

She told me she does recall that there was a pole at the intersection of Wood Street, 4th, and York Avenues. She didn't remember what was on top in particular, but considering she remembered it as a kid, it might have been removed sometime in the early to mid 1930's. She of course had to remind me that Lawrence Street was actually Crown Street when she was a kid.

When I was a kid growing up in the neighborhood (300 block York Avenue), I do remember when York Avenue went all the way up to Callowhill Street. It was a cobblestone street, and I remember the small triangular block was full of broken bricks and overgrown weeds where the pole would have been.

[Titus]

It would be great to hear of other individuals who lived there at the time to see if their memories were similar. Thanks LedZep.