Numbered Avenues

[guinsu]

I was curious if anyone knew the history of the numbered avenues in North Philly, they seem to run from 64 up to 79. I was wondering if there was ever a plan to rename streets in Philly on a st/avenue plan like in NYC and it only got off the ground up there or what.

[thoth]

No. They're just unnamed streets, their numbers correlate to the x000 block the intersect. So 69th Ave is the intersection of the the 6900 block of broad, and is the 69th (more or less) major street north of city hall. These areas were developed later on in the city's history, and for some reason not named. But no, there was never going to be an effort to "manhattanize" the grid up there, as it still effectively follows the philly model aside from the lack of a name. The same thing happens in SW Philly, with "streets" instead of "aves", and I believe it goes up to 90th or something like that.

[Outlaw Star]

Right, there was never any sort of plan to change North Philly's street names. The E/W streets are named up until Chelten Ave.; above Chelten, they went with numbers. As far I know (as a former resident of the area), they simply ran out of names and thought numbers would be easier.

[billy ross]

East-West streets in North Philly were named after counties in Pennsylvania. East-West streets in South Philly were named after governors of Pennsylvania. North-South Streets (corresponding to 30th through 35th or 36th Streets) in East Falls were named after mayors of Philadelphia. Thus not only are there numbered east-west streets on the city grid, but there are also named north-south streets on the city grid.

[Sharkfood]

I believe at one time there were plans to extend the numbered avenues all the way to Chestnut Hill.

[billy ross]

I believe at one time there were plans to extend the numbered avenues all the way to Chestnut Hill.

That wouldn't have really worked out well. The grid splits at the seam between East Germantown and West Oak Lane (around East Wister Street), and streets like Chelten Avenue actually pivot to make that transition. Chestnut Hill uses the Germantown numbering system, and it works out fine. To try to impose the Philly grid on this topography would be silly. The Philly grid is meant to be laid out on featureless prairie / coastal plain. Throw in some glens and some gorges, like we have in the Piedmont around here, and the attempts to impose the grid become farcical. East Falls used to use the Manayunk numbering system, where location is reckoned from the Schuylkill River, which is visible from much of the town, so it was a logical system. In the 1920's it was switched to being reckoned from the Delaware River, which is a pretty meaningless reference point around these parts. Thus it is no surprise that people constantly get lost trying to negotiate our streets which appear to meet each other on maps but in reality they completely miss each other due to the topography. In addition, although right now I'm in the North Philly grid, I'm about to leave to go five blocks away to a location just in Germantown. It uses the Germantown numbering system; I'll jump from 2800 West to 500 West by crossing the street. Since Germantown Avenue follows the topography and the streets radiate out diametrically from it, the Germantown numbering system works well in Germantown, Mt. Airy, and Chestnut Hill.

[dennis DeBrandt]

I was curious if anyone knew the history of the numbered avenues in North Philly, they seem to run from 64 up to 79. I was wondering if there was ever a plan to rename streets in Philly on a st/avenue plan like in NYC and it only got off the ground up there or what.

I have been looking at the istory of East Oak Lane where the numbered Avenues are located and have maps showing the plans for street grids in the late 19th century. I have asked why Oak Lane was named Oak Lane Avenue and concluded that some bureaucrat was looking for consistancy in east west streets. I think residents there are calling the street just Oak Lane as it was named in the 1850s. Before that it was Matin's Mill Road. Anyway I'm going to look at the maps and see if they answer your question. Dennis DeBrandt

[dennis DeBrandt]

I have been looking at the istory of East Oak Lane where the numbered Avenues are located and have maps showing the plans for street grids in the late 19th century. I have asked why Oak Lane was named Oak Lane Avenue and concluded that some bureaucrat was looking for consistancy in east west streets. I think residents there are calling the street just Oak Lane as it was named in the 1850s. Before that it was Matin's Mill Road. Anyway I'm going to look at the maps and see if they answer your question. Dennis DeBrandt

The 1889 Atlas of the City of Philadelphia has 68th, 69th and 70ths Avenues penciled so to speak since thewy were in the planning stage. The two principal landowners in East Oak Lane west of the railroad were T. Henry Asbury and Theo Delancey who were developing those properties. Could be they wanted the streets named Avenue for greater cachet. I think though the main reason was that they were creating intersections of two numbered streets and it might sound awkward to say 9th Street and 69th Street. So better to have those numbered cross roads with different descriptions, streets and avenues. I wonder why they decided not to give those cross streets names instead of numbers since it only concerned 64th avenue through 72nd. Anyway it was decided as early as the 1880s. Dennis DeBrandt