obesity

[Solipsikat]

First, who CARES if Philadelphia has a lot of fat people, what a shallow and trite thing to even be concerned or bothered with when there are SO many issues in Philadelphia that are worthy of being addressed such as crime, how ****ing dirty it is due to rampant and unchecked littering and dumping and the mobs of abandoned cats and fighting pit bulls roaming the streets. Not to mention the class divide, disappearing middle class and absolutely horrifying public education system to be had here.

So given all the REAL issues we could look at and be concerned with... no we look at how fat people are. Many of the aforementioned concern and health trolls have their data completely incorrect... allow me to post a link to a very credible scientific journal that finds obese people on average have the same morbidity with normal weighted people: Above-normal weight alone does not necessarily increase short-term risk of death, U.S. data suggest. so if we toss out the whole health issue as being a real issue... we have to look at the ugly truth. That society detests and dislikes fat people. That fat bigotry and bias exist couched as fat health concern and that bias and bigotry is culturally mandated and subjected in the same way that skin color, hair color and preferred height are culturally subjective indicators for preference and bias. If I had a couple of days I could inundate this thread with study after study that will completely support my claims. But none of that matters, most people would prefer to stay in the Matrix as it were and continue to go, "ew, look fat people" as their junior high school friends taught them.

[Gladys]

go ahead and post the studies!

[The Count]

First, who CARES if Philadelphia has a lot of fat people, what a shallow and trite thing to even be concerned or bothered with when there are SO many issues in Philadelphia that are worthy of being addressed such as crime, how ****ing dirty it is due to rampant and unchecked littering and dumping and the mobs of abandoned cats and fighting pit bulls roaming the streets. Not to mention the class divide, disappearing middle class and absolutely horrifying public education system to be had here.

So given all the REAL issues we could look at and be concerned with... no we look at how fat people are.

I think you'll find that we complain, (and do nothing about), all of those other issues too.

Anyway, in my office all of the manager people eat yogurt or oatmeal packets for breakfast, work out at lunch, then eat a salad or fruit plate with water. Although they can all afford to eat at Capital Grill every day, they spend about $10 to $15 total eating healthy. They're all fit, even those who are pushing 60 years old.

Meanwhile, the support staff (admin, mail room, accounts payable, etc) shows up every morning with bags of Dunkin Donuts, take 5 cigarette breaks a day, (during which time they get another donut or carmel macchiato), then hit Wendy's for lunch. These lower level workers who make anywhere from $30K to $50K a year probably spend close to $25 per day on crap they ingest into their bodies and they're all fat.

[JoeBaker]

also, purchasing healthy food is expensive.

That's only true if it's processed or packaged.

I could make ten times the meals and they'd be ten times healthier shopping at the market and cooking my own food then someone that spent that same money on fast food.

[Hospitalitygirl]

The whole country is fat.

Much of the world is fat!

[CharlieGordon]

The study cited above doesn't claim that there are no adverse health effects associated with obesity:

"While this study cannot explain the reasons, it is possible that as overweight and obesity have become more common, physicians have become more aware of associated health issues like high blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar, and are more aggressive about early detection and treatment of these conditions."

It also notes that there could be longer term risks of death:

"Jerant said that the six-year period of his investigation limits the ability to make assumptions about the link between unhealthy weight and the risk of death over a longer timeframe"

[borntochill]

The study cited above doesn't claim that there are no adverse health effects associated with obesity."

Exactly. Besides the parts of the article that Gladys and Solipsikat posted that you requoted, it also says:

Our results do not mean that being overweight or obese is not a threat to individual or public health.

The prevalence of overweight and obesity has increased dramatically in recent decades. An estimated one-third of all U.S. adults over age 20 are obese and another one-third are overweight. In addition to diabetes and hypertension, health problems associated with these conditions include heart disease, osteoarthritis and sleep apnea.

In other words the authors of the study cited by Gladys and Solipsikat acknowledge:

1. Obesity is a threat to individual health.
2. Obesity is a threat to public health.
3. Obesity is associated with the following chronic conditions:

• diabetes
• hypertension
• heart disease
• osteoarthritis
• sleep apnea

Furthermore, the study discussed by Gladys and Solipsikat uses data from the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey funded by the United States Department of Health and Human Services. Data from that same survey shows a massive increase in taxpayer funds (Medicare and Medicaid) paying for medical treatment attributable to obesity. Spending on obesity-related conditions accounted for an estimated 8.5 percent of Medicare spending, 11.8 percent of Medicaid spending, and 12.9 percent of private-payer spending. In 2008, a conservative estimate of the medical costs of obesity was $147 billion, and these costs are rising quickly.

See also: Economic Costs - Obesity Consequences - The Obesity Prevention Source - Harvard School of Public Health

Nobody should judge or discriminate against bigger people. Mean people suck. However, I cannot agree that reckoning with widespread obesity as a public health concern constitutes discrimination, bigotry or a witch hunt.

[borntochill]

allow me to post a link to a very credible scientific journal that finds obese people on average have the same morbidity with normal weighted people: [url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120706234749.htm]

Allow me to post a few more links from the same source as your article:

Obesity Accounts for 21 Percent of U.S. Health Care Costs, Study Finds

Keeping obesity rates level could save nearly 550 billion dollars over 2 decades

Obesity to rise: 65 million more obese adults in the US expected by 2030

Childhood obesity linked to increased risk of adult cardiovascular and metabolic disorders

Obesity adds more to health care costs than smoking, study suggests

[Gladys]

Nobody should judge or discriminate against bigger people. Mean people suck. However, I cannot agree that reckoning with widespread obesity as a public health concern constitutes discrimination, bigotry or a witch hunt.

sorry it is. there are indeed healthy people who are large. by lumping everyone together you do a disservice to the people who are healthy. There are just as many unhealthy thin people, where's the causality there?

are you telling me that thin people don't have these issues?

diabetes
hypertension
heart disease
osteoarthritis
sleep apnea


LOL they do and to assume that all large people are ill by looking at them is simply uninformed.



did you even check out this site? Health at Every Size there are a lot of people there including the founder who can address this for you, ask them. You might learn something. i'm done beating my head against this issue with you as your brain is closed.

The OP didn't even talk about health at all, just an observation.

I was at the DMV and on several buses in Phila recently and it's so sad that there are so many obese people living here-why is that?

the point is who cares, there are a lot of all kinds of people living here it's a stupid question based in bigotry. Change word obese to any particular race, eye color, religious, views sexual preference and the conversation here would have gone a lot differently.

on another note this link was just pointed out to me. there appear to be large people in Germany too!

navabi ? Berlin Fashion Week

The point is all people are different, it's not the size that means you are healthy or unhealthy, it's the medical issues underneath. If your size is contributing to bad health for your particular frame then you have to address that just like when a thin person has high cholesterol or any other issue. You fix the problem. It's not correct to assume it's always there.

we'll never agree and we don't have to.

[Gladys]

The study cited above doesn't claim that there are no adverse health effects associated with obesity:

"While this study cannot explain the reasons, it is possible that as overweight and obesity have become more common, physicians have become more aware of associated health issues like high blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar, and are more aggressive about early detection and treatment of these conditions."

It also notes that there could be longer term risks of death:

"Jerant said that the six-year period of his investigation limits the ability to make assumptions about the link between unhealthy weight and the risk of death over a longer timeframe"

there are also long term risks of death from all kinds of things. and adverse health effects from just about everything.

no one is saying that being large is always healthy, but being large can be healthy.

[CharlieGordon]

"There are just as many unhealthy thin people, where's the causality there?"

Really? The overweight population and non overweight population share the same illness rates, especially for the illnesses listed above (diabetes, hypertension etc)? Where did you get that stat?


"are you telling me that thin people don't have these issues? "

Nobody is claiming that every thin person is healthy and every overweight person is sick. On average, obese people suffer from higher rates of certain illnesses.

[borntochill]

"There are just as many unhealthy thin people, where's the causality there?"

Really? The overweight population and non overweight population share the same illness rates, especially for the illnesses listed above (diabetes, hypertension etc)? Where did you get that stat?


"are you telling me that thin people don't have these issues? "

Nobody is claiming that every thin person is healthy and every overweight person is sick. On average, obese people suffer from higher rates of certain illnesses.

Charlie pretty much answered as I would.

Gladys, I looked at your advocacy site and I completely agree with you that weight prejudice is appalling and should be countered. I also agree that, at any weight, fit is healthier than sedentary. Not every overweight or obese individual is unhealthy. You're proof of that.

However, on average, obese individuals have a significantly higher prevalence of serious chronic disease and overall medical spending for obese individuals is 40% higher than for those of normal weight. These are figures direct from the Center for Disease Control and the Department of Health and Human Services. There has been an alarming increase in obesity over the last few decades and the public health consequences and impact on health care costs will be dire if this is not addressed.

[Gladys]

Linda Bacon writes in the HAES® blog about how Obamacare encourages healthcare providers and employers to push weight-loss goals, and how you can deflect the unwelcome "help."

the HAES® files: Obamacare

the HAES® files: Obamacare’s Misfire on Weight—New Workplace Provisions that Deserve a Pink Slip
by Health At Every Size® Blog

by Linda Bacon, PhD

The Supreme Court’s decision to uphold President Obama’s Affordable Care Act is good news for Americans in many ways, but not without significant problems. It’s a big coup for the diet industry, for example, but less settling for a populace already suffering from weight anxiety and misinformed advice.

The Act enforces the recent recommendation from the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force stating that all doctors should warn “obese” patients that their weight puts them at high risk for disease, but that weight loss and lifestyle changes can help – and then direct them to intensive weight-loss counseling. Currently, few insurance companies pay for such programs. Under “Obamacare,” however, insurers will be required to cover most medically advised weight-loss expenses and employers will almost surely intensify their anti-obesity campaigns. Weight Watchers’ stock has already surged in anticipation of the bounty to come.

If this made Americans healthier, it would be all to the good. But it won’t. Before Jenny Craig counts more millions, before more doctors mete out bad diet advice, and before more well-intentioned American executives mandate disordered eating as a condition of employment, here’s what they (and all of us) need to know…
Dear Boss: It’s Time to Give Anti-Obesity Programs the Pink Slip

An absence of results in our national war on obesity hasn’t dimmed enthusiasm in the private sector for a spate of workplace “wellness” initiatives aimed at weight loss. As discouraging as it is to see the government wasting its efforts and spreading fat stigma without effect, the workplace trend is far worse. That it won’t work is only the start of the problem.

When fat prejudice comes from government, disgusted citizens at least can walk away or change the channel (and maybe even vote its authors from office). When it comes from a boss, though – or, more commonly, a human resources department – employees have little recourse. That’s when anti-obesity initiatives cross the line from merely offensive and ineffectual to something worse: They become hostile and coercive.

I leave to lawyers the technical arguments against discrimination and when this constitutes a hostile work environment – not an easy case to make, given that just one state (Michigan) has outlawed discrimination based on size. But whether it’s benefits like health insurance at stake or “only” the insult and prejudice of a workplace “educational campaign” stressing the dangers of obesity, workplace obesity initiatives induce stress, anxiety, and bad feelings while increasing the likelihood of disordered eating and other maladies. On top of all that, they make it seem okay to discriminate against colleagues and subordinates based on externalities unrelated to job performance.

This is not to demonize the people behind these efforts. Given today’s general misunderstanding at all levels about the roles of fat in disease, it’s easy to imagine that most HR and health professionals have only good intentions in trying to induce colleagues to get thinner. If that worked – and if it didn’t induce harm – this blog post might be unnecessary.

But evidence so far shows that hardly anyone can lose weight and keep it off long term, despite widely touted claims by some scientists. Which shouldn’t be so surprising, given well established evidence that the body’s regulatory mechanisms resist weight loss. So we are left with anti-obesity messages that wield no practical impact while shaming the larger members of a community (and causing their colleagues to fear becoming like them).

As I ask in my online form letter opposing such campaigns (paraphrased here), “What does our organization gain by shaming some of us for how we look? Is there any evidence to suggest it will stimulate improved health behaviors?”

Yes, evidence. It’s surprising, really, that corporate employers, who have their own or shareholders’ money at stake, are undeterred by the abysmal return on investment of pretty much every obesity-education measure ever tried. If measured by the yardsticks applied to other commercial efforts – in marketing, say, or research and development – weight-loss “health” initiatives would be history, so the hate question would be moot.

But when it comes to the obesity bogeyman, even MBAs quail and comptrollers quake. Cost-benefit ratios fly out the window along with reasonableness itself. No one seems to care or calculate whether a campaign will make workers healthier, only whether it will slim them down and, in that case, only in the short term.

Some companies incentivize thinness, without regard to health, by providing better benefits for thinner employees. Whole Foods, for example, has a “health incentive” program which allows a higher discount for in-store purchases for employees with lower body mass indexes (BMI).

Other companies penalize fatness, also regardless of employees’ health status or habits, as in this example from a correspondent on the West Coast who faces a frightening bind (and therefore remains anonymous). “I work in an outpatient medical clinic,” she wrote, “and heard that, come open enrollment time, employees are going to be screened and face either insurance premium raises or a requirement to enroll in Weight Watchers” or an in-house weight-management class. (Again, this is absent any evidence that such programs offer any lasting health benefits for most people.)

Government workplaces make the same error, as another correspondent has just reported: “The Navy now has policy that ensures members are separated without compensation because they do not fall within Navy [BMI] standards. What bothers me the most is the fact that the Navy is discharging personnel who do not weigh/measure up to their standard without even allowing them to take a physical fitness test. I know many people who are very unhealthy and are within standards only because they weigh less than others.”

As an exercise physiologist and nutritionist and an avid athlete myself, I’m as eager as anyone to see more people caring for themselves by enjoying movement and eating well. It makes sense – and dollars, too – to refocus the energy behind our anti-obesity campaigns into promoting good health behaviors for everyone, regardless of what they weigh. That philosophy is at the heart of my book, Health at Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight, and the HAES® movement that it’s named for, and drives the mission of the Association for Size Diversity and Health, an international coalition of HAES professionals. I just know that fat shaming will never get us where we want to be, and it’s time corporate America learns that, too.

[sharkey]

There is an argument too that poor people are less educated about food and nutrition generally, and lack understanding of calories and protein etc. They live in "food deserts" lacking in choice and healthy, unprocessed foods. I feel like Philadelphia is on the cutting-edge of implementing solutions to these problems, e.g. turning vacant lots into food co-ops.

Side note: in the 18th and 19th centuries, the poor were bone-thin and the rich were the "fat cats." Now more poor are fat and the rich have personal trainers and nutritionists. Ironic. Of course I am solidly middle class and solidly 20 lbs overweight

I call BS on this whole "the poor are fat because they can't get healthy food" argument. While it may be true for some individuals who live among a majoritypeople that want to eat junk, storekeepers will carry what their customers want to buy. If many people want a product, the storekeeper will provide it. Is there a vast conspiracy among the thousands of grocery store owners to only carry unhealthy foods and create a "food desert?" Even if there was, could not someone make an occasional trip to a better store and stock up on rice, beans, oatmeal, etc.? Why are immigrants living in the same neighborhoods not fat? If healthy foods are expensive, why aren't all the people in 3rd world countries fat? The reality is that the poor are fat for the same reason that they are poor--lack of foresight, self-discipline, and stupidity. The liberals had a problem with their cries that "people are starving" because of all the fat poor people walking (or rolling in their electric scooters) around. Therefore, they invented this whole "food desert" and "the poor are fat because healthy food is expensive" BS.

[PhilaCap]

Lots of gross fatties in this town.

[Gladys]

That's an interesting point. One of the large factors that affect this is hereditary. So if you come from a family like this, you may need to work extra hard for it. Plus not only we do exercise for the society but it would be beneficial for us in the long run since we would be healthy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but obesity=prone to any illness.

You are wrong. it does not equal prone to ANY illness.

Sorry.

[Gladys]

New study finds 46% of obese people are metabolically healthy - Birmingham science news | Examiner.com

"New research reported in the European Heart Journal on September 4, 2012, reports that a large subset of obese people is in fact healthy. The research was reviewed at the Eureka Alert web site the same day.

The findings hinge on one fact. A person can be obese but be metabolically healthy. Metabolically healthy people do not have the same risk of developing diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and other chronic diseases that obese people that are not metabolically healthy do."

[thoth]

So the majority of obese people are unhealthy.

New study finds 46% of obese people are metabolically healthy - Birmingham science news | Examiner.com

"New research reported in the European Heart Journal on September 4, 2012, reports that a large subset of obese people is in fact healthy. The research was reviewed at the Eureka Alert web site the same day.

The findings hinge on one fact. A person can be obese but be metabolically healthy. Metabolically healthy people do not have the same risk of developing diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and other chronic diseases that obese people that are not metabolically healthy do."

[Sycamore]

Science Proves That Thinness Is Deadlier Than Obesity

[Gladys]

Science Proves That Thinness Is Deadlier Than Obesity

Thanks for this i hadn't seen it!

It's all about the individual body type. not whether they are too fat or two thin... it's about being healthy at every size.