anyone see this happen? oktoberfest fool gets beaten by cop on south st.

[lucidinnature]

You're assuming that the officers in question weren't on him. This was handled fairly quickly and without anyone else getting hurt in the process.

Is that never enough for anyone? Or must people prove what sort of super armchair cop they are and second guess everything that goes on in the heat of the moment.

Gotta love these threads. Even if you agree overall, heaven forbid if you don't kiss ass to every single thing.

Several accounts, including mr football coach who was there, admits the guy was a problem for quite sometime. In fact, by his own words, the actions were more than enough to get rid of the guy through his ramp training. Additionally, putting that specific officer as the lone officer on the guy is like putting a flame to a powder keg on south street.

[dkh22]

And by the way most of my staff is RAMP trained and no where in ramp training does it tell you how to forcibly remove an angry warlock who is threatening people and being a complete ##shole. They tell you to call the police.

[lucidinnature]

You're exactly right- which is why police could have, by your own account, dispersed this situation well before the melting point had the officers been informed of the nuisance.

And by the way most of my staff is RAMP trained and no where in ramp training does it tell you how to forcibly remove an angry warlock who is threatening people and being a complete ##shole. They tell you to call the police.

[lucidinnature]

So as long as someone isn't "stumbling drunk", they're good? Better check up on that ramp training. From your own account, let alone many others, the police should have been told to intervene well before you stopped serving them and continued to let them be a nuisance- and that's just by going on your words coach.

We did everything we were supposed to. We stopped serving the guy because he was being rowdy and annoying not because he was stumbling drunk. We hoped he would just leave on his own. When he didn't we asked him to leave, when he refused he was forced to leave. When he swung at a cop, the cop swung back. It isn't as easy as you think it is to remove someone from a public space because you don't like the way they look or act or smell. 99.9% of people will leave when asked to, especially when a police officer asks you to. If Officer Gress expected the guy to take a swing at him I bet he would have waited for a little more help. People just don't go around swinging at cops, drunk or not. This guy was looking for trouble and for whatever reason thought it was a good idea. You don't plan for things like this to happen. I run a good business that is an asset to the neighborhood. This event is not only good for my business but the surrounding ones as well. If this video never goes viral there is no mention of this incident. I followed procedure by identifying a problem and handing it off to the proper authorities. How the police decide to handle it is not my call. Just drop it.

[dkh22]

They were informed! 1.5 hours before the incident occurred, police were informed. Officer Gress stationed himself 20 ft from these people for over an hour and asked to keep an eye in them. They were cut off from further alcohol. In their mind they were having a good time, everyone else thought they were out of place and kind of crashing the party. It was kind of like a mosh pit to oompah music. Basically you are saying they should have been immediately removed from the street as soon as they were noticed, who is to say that would have turned out any better if not worse? I always find it is best to be respectful and try and ask people to leave politely than manhandle them. Next year feel free to come down and manage my security detail since you are obviously an expert at such things.

[dkh22]

So just to be clear. Are you trying to say this whole incident is my fault because I didn't ask my Security guys to forcibly remove this guy immediately? How did allowing this person an hour to calm down and hopefully leave on his one cause the situation to escalate at all? Maybe next year I better get metal detectors and hire 25 police officers just to be safe?

[Hospitalitygirl]

Gotta love these threads. Even if you agree overall, heaven forbid if you don't kiss ass to every single thing.

Several accounts, including mr football coach who was there, admits the guy was a problem for quite sometime. In fact, by his own words, the actions were more than enough to get rid of the guy through his ramp training. Additionally, putting that specific officer as the lone officer on the guy is like putting a flame to a powder keg on south street.

You're exactly right- which is why police could have, by your own account, dispersed this situation well before the melting point had the officers been informed of the nuisance.

So as long as someone isn't "stumbling drunk", they're good? Better check up on that ramp training. From your own account, let alone many others, the police should have been told to intervene well before you stopped serving them and continued to let them be a nuisance- and that's just by going on your words coach.

You are really being ridiculous now. I actually saw a good deal of this; clearly you did not and are relying on second-hand information. Perhaps it is time to drop this matter.

[thoth]

So just to be clear. Are you trying to say this whole incident is my fault because I didn't ask my Security guys to forcibly remove this guy immediately? How did allowing this person an hour to calm down and hopefully leave on his one cause the situation to escalate at all? Maybe next year I better get metal detectors and hire 25 police officers just to be safe?

If you are psychically notified that someone is going to be a problem you should preemptively remove them. My understanding, from a documentary I watched featuring Tom Cruise, is that the police already posses this technology. So did you just ignore the Precrime warnings or do you just love watching fights you prevert?

[lucidinnature]

You are really being ridiculous now. I actually saw a good deal of this; clearly you did not and are relying on second-hand information. Perhaps it is time to drop this matter.

And what did I say? Let's just go with Coach's scenario. He wanted to start the feather ruffling and name calling, so we'll just go with his account. I realize that police and restaurants you're affiliated with can do no wrong, but let's see the scenario through his interpretation.

1) there were 2 police officers as well as 8 other additional security people on hand for this event. This costs us about $2000 and considering we never need any security for anything, this has worked in the past and seems to be enough. Additionally the mini station had normal South St Patrol stopping by and checking in.

So with all of this manpower, this guy was able to go on and on and on. This was not a matter of moments on a video-from Coach's own words, this guy was trouble for a while and should have been dismissed. Only after pointing that out did the story get watered down to him 'just not fitting in'. Gee, by the account below, the guy was doing a bit more than not fitting in.

2) at approximately 2pm I personally witnessed these 3 people dancing like idiots, screaming and generally being rowdy. I wouldn't necessarily call them "wasted" just rowdy. When the man who was involved in the altercation screamed and grabbed the girl almost knocking her to the ground, I got the feeling there was going to be a problem with them. I spoke to the police detail and Gress stationed himself very close to them in order to hopefully get them to behave themselves. This was 2 hours into the event. After hearing that this gentleman threatened people in line for the bathroom in order to jump ahead. I decided to cut them off. They did not take kindly to this. We allowed them to still hang around because you can't exactly profile people for not seeming to fit in with the crowd. At some point it was decided to ask these people to leave.

What's RAMP guidelines? Someone doesn't have to be 'wasted'-in fact, a person doesn't even have to be deemed intoxicated. Rowdy, crude behavior is more than enough. By his account-not mine-the people were behaving like idiots, being rowdy, and even when a guy screams and grabs a girl almost knocking her to the ground and yet this still isn't enough to take a stand?! Once again-his words, not mine. And even after he cut them off for more offenses, he let them stay. Once again-his words, not mine. By his own version of events this could have been squashed way before getting to this.

[lucidinnature]

If you are psychically notified that someone is going to be a problem you should preemptively remove them. My understanding, from a documentary I watched featuring Tom Cruise, is that the police already posses this technology. So did you just ignore the Precrime warnings or do you just love watching fights you prevert?

If you read the thread you'd see by his own words that at least 4 other incidents happened with these people before anything was done. Even when the guy grabbed a girl, he wasn't ejected. Doesn't take a psychic once someone gets that aggressive.

[lucidinnature]

The hilarious thing is that I supported the actions of the officer, and still get crapped on. And then the first hand account vs. my 'couch quarterbacking' makes the situation worse instead of better. And the reason why I previously questioned why this specific officer was put on this detail is now news today:
iradiophilly | News - Officer Gress Excessive Force History, SEPTA Baby Born, Camden Hit And Run Arrest
"City officials say the Philadelphia police officer caught on video using his baton to help make an arrest at a South Street block party last month has been sued in federal court 13 times. A review of the cases shows they involved charges of unreasonable force and unlawful arrest, among others."

The officer personally told me before that he wasn't on south street anymore because of the suits. I was honestly surprised to see him on south street detail at all, and still thought he was on off-south detail.

Such a typical climate around here that if someone asks simple questions they get booed and squashed because oh noes, gotta be part of the herd and not dare ask anything!!!!

[2happy4u]

Why? This is the fourth one and there's never been a problem before.

never till now. See what happens next year now that this video has been on you tube. Drinkingfest can't turn out good.

[sharkey]

[QUOTE=lucidinnature;541184]Why don't you just tell me what you'd like me to say so that you can win some illusionary point on the internet.

[QUOTE=sharkey;541163][/QUOTE

I don't want you to say anything in particular, I am just trying to understand your point. If the extra head shots were "excessive," what did they exceed? If you just meant to say that they may seem excessive, but you support them, fine.

[lucidinnature]

I don't want you to say anything in particular, I am just trying to understand your point. If the extra head shots were "excessive," what did they exceed? If you just meant to say that they may seem excessive, but you support them, fine.

Well, I'm going by the promoter of the event. If he said several police were on staff, this shouldn't have happened. Why?

It's simple. Everyone keeps talking about one guy. This is a lie. There were several people causing problems, and any former or or current cop could see that there were two aggressors on the video-not one. Several groups-not people-groups, during the day said that these people were problems. Racism, fighting, sexism. The promoter plainly admits to seeing all of this yet letting them still be part of the event. The promoter cited that they were problems. These aren't my words no matter how much they wish to dilute them. The idiots should have been dealt with way before, and struggling alone with two people who were known problems is inexcusable on any level of the equation.

Oh, and this whining about how much is spent on security is hilarious. Do you know how many great peaceful events are brought in this city every year yet they hire 6 or 7 cops for the task? The tattoo conventions draw 60k people each time, and they hire proportionally more even though alcohol isn't directly involved. His boohoo on security doesn't impress me on a purely alcohol and street closed event.

edit-and in it, the promoter admits that he knew these people were known gang members. That wouldn't have happened at other city events since gang colors are plainly not allowed. How exactly did he know they were the gang members he mentioned on here? Anyone with those notions wouldn't be allowed in any bar or business on south street that I can think of due to the inherent trouble.

[lucidinnature]

I guess, sharkey, this event can go with what I learned many moons ago. The attitudes can boast, but make no mistake-this was a pure money day for them as others suffered from blocks of the street shut off. That's cool. But when they want to talk about couch quarterbacks and how boo hoo they had to pay for security and blah blah blah? I tried to be pleasant. I tried to say how three groups from this drinkingfest came into my business. The truth is, they came right after the fight and they were so disturbed that they left the event. That's a fact. I have it on record in my store.

Years ago, everyone waited for fat tuesday. promoters, bars overstocked, titties out. The one morning I woke up and saw a much lesser crowd. It was at fat tuesday. I said, "f' this, I guess I'm taking the day off". I lost a day of work, went to NYC, hung out, and drank at a bar later that night. At one point the bartender said, "hey, don't you have a place on south street-it's on CNN" I watched people rioting, a car flipped directly in front of my business, and a fire about 1/3 of a block away. That started off one drunken fight that ended up into a crushed riot. No one, including those who look to reap pure profits off a street closure, can tell me any different-especially when they weren't even around back then and don't realize how quickly things can get out of hand.

If a bar owner wants to show me attitude for blocking me and so many more retail shops from doing business, and backpeddles on security measures? That's ridiculous.

[dkh22]

Look, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. Obviously you are upset that the street was shut down for a festival that was good for surrounding businesses. If you feel the need to discuss further you know where to find me and we can discuss your concerns like adults. Your argument that it should have been dealt with earlier doesn't mean there wouldn't have been an altercation. The officer dealt with the situation as he saw fit. More security on sight would not have changed anything. The only thing that might have helped diffuse this situation peacefully would have been if the officer requested assistance in removing the individual, but that is in hindsight. I don't know what business you have but as a business owner on South St, you should support street festivals like this and you should get involved to help organize more. Anyway, I am done replying to this thread. I came on here to state the facts, bend them into whatever makes you happy but I am not going to get baited into a stupid argument. I stand by the way we handled things and will use it as a learning experience for the future. Oktoberfest is a good event and we are looking forward to it next year.

[Malloy]

If you feel the need to discuss further you know where to find me and we can discuss your concerns like adults.

Sounds good to me.

[lucidinnature]

Ahhhhh... gotcha. So now I'm upset that the street was closed down. If you bothered to read, you'd see that I plainly said that I got some business from it-even if it was because they left due to the fight.

Help organize? I did that for 8 years. I'm not going to come down and help you organize some profit making event for free. If you bothered to read, I plainly supported the event, and merely take offense to your attitude, that an officer had to be alone for this altercation, and BY YOUR OWN WORDS that these people were not kicked out when they grabbed hold of a woman(that you witnessed) and harassed many other people who left because of them.

Look, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. Obviously you are upset that the street was shut down for a festival that was good for surrounding businesses. If you feel the need to discuss further you know where to find me and we can discuss your concerns like adults. Your argument that it should have been dealt with earlier doesn't mean there wouldn't have been an altercation. The officer dealt with the situation as he saw fit. More security on sight would not have changed anything. The only thing that might have helped diffuse this situation peacefully would have been if the officer requested assistance in removing the individual, but that is in hindsight. I don't know what business you have but as a business owner on South St, you should support street festivals like this and you should get involved to help organize more. Anyway, I am done replying to this thread. I came on here to state the facts, bend them into whatever makes you happy but I am not going to get baited into a stupid argument. I stand by the way we handled things and will use it as a learning experience for the future. Oktoberfest is a good event and we are looking forward to it next year.

[lucidinnature]

Sounds good to me.

Oh sorry, Malloy. I thought this was a forum to discuss things. Completely forgot that you were turning it into an area where no one talks and everyone just makes their own blog and then uses this space to blast with links.

[Malloy]

Oh sorry, Malloy. I thought this was a forum to discuss things. Completely forgot that you were turning it into an area where no one talks and everyone just makes their own blog and then uses this space to blast with links.

This is not a place for personal beef or attacks. Nothing new here. He asked that if you have more to discuss with him, contact him in person as he is easy to find. Seems pretty clear to me.