anyone see this happen? oktoberfest fool gets beaten by cop on south st.

**whatsup** · 10-16-2012, 05:41 PM

If you listen closely to the audio you can hear someone shouting "Pull his gun out!" while the cop is struggling with that piece of garbage. Don't know if that was a bystander trying to be helpful in their own idiotic way, but I think this could factor into the urgency and severity of his response, especially if that turd was there as part of a group of drunk aggressive a-holes as reported by witnesses.

**lucidinnature** · 10-16-2012, 06:16 PM

The guy deserved to be beat. That said, there's some issues here that the tape doesn't show.

The man should have been immediately handcuffed and arrested without playing games or talking. He had already spit on and hit private security since his friends were being ejected. Several police should have already been there since it is an outdoor event with a 1,000 people drinking on a shut down street with the police station only a block away. There should have been at least 3 officers on this detail. And who is the only officer that shows up? City Hall's worst nightmare. The officer in the video already has a bunch of lawsuits against him for aggressive south street arrests. I support him, and although excessive I support the forcefulness, but this could have been handled much differently if the correct amount of officers were around.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-16-2012, 07:00 PM

There were at least 3 officers on this detail all day. It was mostly a great crowd except for those idiots.

**lucidinnature** · 10-16-2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

There were at least 3 officers on this detail all day. It was mostly a great crowd except for those idiots.

Where were they? I agree that it was a good crowd and we actually got some business directly from it, but booze and crowds obviously need a police presence no matter where it is at. If there were 3 officers around where the heck were they and why was this officer sent to handle it?
edit-I'm not criticizing, just asking. If three cops were right there this should have been a complete non-issue.

**sharkey** · 10-16-2012, 10:17 PM

"although excessive I support the forcefulness"

???? seems like a contradiction

**lucidinnature** · 10-16-2012, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by sharkey

"although excessive I support the forcefulness"

???? seems like a contradiction

Absolutely not. Family members have spent their entire lives in law enforcement. Their job isn't to fight a fair fight, it is to use proper force to control the situation and go home at the end of the day. Batons are effective forcefulness. I think the repeated head shots were extreme, but they are legal.

**Charlotte the Cat** · 10-16-2012, 10:58 PM

I was at this event from about 5 til 6:30pm. I saw 2 cops stationed on the corner of 16th & south during that time. I didn't see the incident in the video (ouch, had it coming), but a friend worked at a restaurant on the block and said that there were plenty of douchebags around.

What I noticed at the event was the amount of young people smoking while walking in the crowded street. But I guess drinking and smoking still go hand 'n hand.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-16-2012, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Charlotte the Cat

I was at this event from about 5 til 6:30pm. I saw 2 cops stationed on the corner of 16th & south during that time. I didn't see the incident in the video (ouch, had it coming), but a friend worked at a restaurant on the block and said that there were plenty of douchebags around.

What I noticed at the event was the amount of young people smoking while walking in the crowded street. But I guess drinking and smoking still go hand 'n hand.

I think you mean "Bloctoberfest" South Street, WEST of Broad. Not the same event.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-16-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by lucidinnature

Where were they? I agree that it was a good crowd and we actually got some business directly from it, but booze and crowds obviously need a police presence no matter where it is at. If there were 3 officers around where the heck were they and why was this officer sent to handle it?
edit-I'm not criticizing, just asking. If three cops were right there this should have been a complete non-issue.

The block was pretty full of people all day. I walked through that crowd a few times, and watched from my window. The officers were on scene all day, and I walked past them a few times. These people were causing a problem for a while and weren't responding calmly when they were asked to leave. There is also the issue of the sidewalk being a public walkway and you can block access to it.

It's unfortunate this altercation happened, but it's honestly the only issue ever at one of these Oktoberfests. I would like to see it continue since it actually draws a pretty nice crowd.

**dkh22** · 10-16-2012, 11:45 PM

Alright, time for me to jump in here since it is my event and I was actually there and know what happened, hopefully this will end all the Monday Morning QBs.
1) there were 2 police officers as well as 8 other additional security people on hand for this event. This costs us about $2000 and considering we never need any security for anything, this has worked in the past and seems to be enough. Additionally the mini station had normal South St Patrol stopping by and checking in.
2) at approximately 2pm I personally witnessed these 3 people dancing like idiots, screaming and generally being rowdy. I wouldn't necessarily call them "wasted" just rowdy. When the man who was involved in the altercation screamed and grabbed the girl almost knocking her to the ground, I got the feeling there was going to be a problem with them. I spoke to the police detail and Gress stationed himself very close to them in order to hopefully get them to behave themselves. This was 2 hours into the event. After hearing that this gentleman threatened people in line for the bathroom in order to jump ahead. I decided to cut them off. They did not take kindly to this. We allowed them to still hang around because you can't exactly profile people for not seeming to fit in with the crowd. At some point it was decided to ask these people to leave. They made it peacefully half way toward 8th street. At some point this guy realizes the two huge African American security guys assisting the officer and he became enraged, shouting N word this, N word that. This is about where the video starts. We all know how that went. After the video stops, the gentleman tries to get up and the two bouncers are sitting on him keeping him down. Seconds later about 15-20 officers show up. 10 mins later an ambulance comes with a gurney and this guy is wheeled out while giving everyone the finger followed by more N words.

The security guards were right in letting the officer handle it. The second officer was at the other end of the street at the time of the altercation. This guy was hellbent on causing a problem. The rest of the day went on without issue. I wish there was an easier way to just ask these people to leave at 2:00 when I realized that they didn't belong at this particular event. I seriously hope you guys don't let this 1 out of thousands tarnish this event. But I am sure some of you will.

**lucidinnature** · 10-17-2012, 12:16 AM

Monday morning quarterbacks? Not sure where you feel justified in being smug when you said the same story I already knew-with exception of the fact that you knew this guy was being an idiot all along. Didn't look wasted to you? Of course not-that would signify liability. Several people who were there told me he and his friends seemed wasted from the moment they were noticed and making a disturbance. Everything could have been averted by kicking them out from the beginning-and yes, I was told by several 'quarterbacks' that left immediately after this incident that they were causing problems for a while.

Do problems happen anytime a mass of people get together? Of course. Does one incident tarnish an event? No-but your attitude towards people merely asking questions sure does.

Originally Posted by dkh22

Alright, time for me to jump in here since it is my event and I was actually there and know what happened, hopefully this will end all the Monday Morning QBs.
1) there were 2 police officers as well as 8 other additional security people on hand for this event. This costs us about $2000 and considering we never need any security for anything, this has worked in the past and seems to be enough. Additionally the mini station had normal South St Patrol stopping by and checking in.
2) at approximately 2pm I personally witnessed these 3 people dancing like idiots, screaming and generally being rowdy. I wouldn't necessarily call them "wasted" just rowdy. When the man who was involved in the altercation screamed and grabbed the girl almost knocking her to the ground, I got the feeling there was going to be a problem with them. I spoke to the police detail and Gress stationed himself very close to them in order to hopefully get them to behave themselves. This was 2 hours into the event. After hearing that this gentleman threatened people in line for the bathroom in order to jump ahead. I decided to cut them off. They did not take kindly to this. We allowed them to still hang around because you can't exactly profile people for not seeming to fit in with the crowd. At some point it was decided to ask these people to leave. They made it peacefully half way toward 8th street. At some point this guy realizes the two huge African American security guys assisting the officer and he became enraged, shouting N word this, N word that. This is about where the video starts. We all know how that went. After the video stops, the gentleman tries to get up and the two bouncers are sitting on him keeping him down. Seconds later about 15-20 officers show up. 10 mins later an ambulance comes with a gurney and this guy is wheeled out while giving everyone the finger followed by more N words.

The security guards were right in letting the officer handle it. The second officer was at the other end of the street at the time of the altercation. This guy was hellbent on causing a problem. The rest of the day went on without issue. I wish there was an easier way to just ask these people to leave at 2:00 when I realized that they didn't belong at this particular event. I seriously hope you guys don't let this 1 out of thousands tarnish this event. But I am sure some of you will.

**dkh22** · 10-17-2012, 12:22 AM

How am I being smug? I am merely stating the facts of what happened because I was there. You are going from what you heard from other people, because you were not there. When it was noticed these people might be a problem it was handed over to police and security. "Should have, could have, would have", is the definition of Monday Morning QB is it not?

**NJbound** · 10-17-2012, 08:33 AM

he got what was coming to him. End of story. The cop did his job

**19147** · 10-17-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by NJbound

he got what was coming to him. End of story. The cop did his job

When you say it like that, you make it sound like it's the cop's job to dole out punishment. That's when there is an issue. In a perfect world, the cop's job is to use exactly the right amount of force required to apprehend the suspect. We don't live in a perfect world though. The cop may or may not have gotten a few extra shots in here. Because the cop was alone, the guy was big and clearly out of control, and the guy hit the cop, it had to go down the way that it did.

The lieutenant from the previous incident clearly overstepped that line, for those that think that was similar to this.

**sharkey** · 10-17-2012, 12:31 PM

[QUOTE=lucidinnature;541021]Absolutely not. Family members have spent their entire lives in law enforcement. Their job isn't to fight a fair fight, it is to use proper force to control the situation and go home at the end of the day. Batons are effective forcefulness. I think the repeated head shots were extreme, but they are legal.[/QUOTE

Please explain how you can say that the hits were "excessive" but also that you support them. Excessive means they violate some standard. You can't say that they violate your standards but also that you support them, that is an inherent contradiction. Are you saying that they were excessive by some standard of behavior, but not by the standard of behavior that you believe in?

**sharkey** · 10-17-2012, 12:34 PM

[QUOTE=dkh22;541044]Alright, time for me to jump in here since it is my event and I was actually there and know what happened, hopefully this will end all the Monday Morning QBs.
1) there were 2 police officers as well as 8 other additional security people on hand for this event. This costs us about $2000 and considering we never need any security for anything, this has worked in the past and seems to be enough. Additionally the mini station had normal South St Patrol stopping by and checking in.
2) at approximately 2pm I personally witnessed these 3 people dancing like idiots, screaming and generally being rowdy. I wouldn't necessarily call them "wasted" just rowdy. When the man who was involved in the altercation screamed and grabbed the girl almost knocking her to the ground, I got the feeling there was going to be a problem with them. I spoke to the police detail and Gress stationed himself very close to them in order to hopefully get them to behave themselves. This was 2 hours into the event. After hearing that this gentleman threatened people in line for the bathroom in order to jump ahead. I decided to cut them off. They did not take kindly to this. We allowed them to still hang around because you can't exactly profile people for not seeming to fit in with the crowd. At some point it was decided to ask these people to leave. They made it peacefully half way toward 8th street. At some point this guy realizes the two huge African American security guys assisting the officer and he became enraged, shouting N word this, N word that. This is about where the video starts. We all know how that went. After the video stops, the gentleman tries to get up and the two bouncers are sitting on him keeping him down. Seconds later about 15-20 officers show up. 10 mins later an ambulance comes with a gurney and this guy is wheeled out while giving everyone the finger followed by more N words.

The security guards were right in letting the officer handle it. The second officer was at the other end of the street at the time of the altercation. This guy was hellbent on causing a problem. The rest of the day went on without issue. I wish there was an easier way to just ask these people to leave at 2:00 when I realized that they didn't belong at this particular event. I seriously hope you guys don't let this 1 out of thousands tarnish this event. But I am sure some of you will.[/QUOTE

"gentleman"---pick a better word

**lucidinnature** · 10-17-2012, 01:04 PM

Why don't you just tell me what you'd like me to say so that you can win some illusionary point on the internet.

[QUOTE=sharkey;541163]

Originally Posted by lucidinnature

Absolutely not. Family members have spent their entire lives in law enforcement. Their job isn't to fight a fair fight, it is to use proper force to control the situation and go home at the end of the day. Batons are effective forcefulness. I think the repeated head shots were extreme, but they are legal.[/QUOTE

Please explain how you can say that the hits were "excessive" but also that you support them. Excessive means they violate some standard. You can't say that they violate your standards but also that you support them, that is an inherent contradiction. Are you saying that they were excessive by some standard of behavior, but not by the standard of behavior that you believe in?

**lucidinnature** · 10-17-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by dkh22

"Should have, could have, would have", is the definition of Monday Morning QB is it not?

No. Several people were bothered by the visibly impaired person. Just by your description alone, it exactly describes a situation where RAMP training would kick in and say they were exhibiting several characteristics to be removed. From the length of time described in your own words, and the fact that no other problems ever existed, the officers, not single officer, should have been on this guy. Not security, not his ranting girlfriend, not anyone else. That's not quarterbacking-that's fallacy in your own description and the path that everyone took in subduing this guy when the problem could have been averted.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-17-2012, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by lucidinnature

No. Several people were bothered by the visibly impaired person. Just by your description alone, it exactly describes a situation where RAMP training would kick in and say they were exhibiting several characteristics to be removed. From the length of time described in your own words, and the fact that no other problems ever existed, the officers, not single officer, should have been on this guy. Not security, not his ranting girlfriend, not anyone else. That's not quarterbacking-that's fallacy in your own description and the path that everyone took in subduing this guy when the problem could have been averted.

You're assuming that the officers in question weren't on him. This was handled fairly quickly and without anyone else getting hurt in the process.

Is that never enough for anyone? Or must people prove what sort of super armchair cop they are and second guess everything that goes on in the heat of the moment.

**dkh22** · 10-17-2012, 01:36 PM

We did everything we were supposed to. We stopped serving the guy because he was being rowdy and annoying not because he was stumbling drunk. We hoped he would just leave on his own. When he didn't we asked him to leave, when he refused he was forced to leave. When he swung at a cop, the cop swung back. It isn't as easy as you think it is to remove someone from a public space because you don't like the way they look or act or smell. 99.9% of people will leave when asked to, especially when a police officer asks you to. If Officer Gress expected the guy to take a swing at him I bet he would have waited for a little more help. People just don't go around swinging at cops, drunk or not. This guy was looking for trouble and for whatever reason thought it was a good idea. You don't plan for things like this to happen. I run a good business that is an asset to the neighborhood. This event is not only good for my business but the surrounding ones as well. If this video never goes viral there is no mention of this incident. I followed procedure by identifying a problem and handing it off to the proper authorities. How the police decide to handle it is not my call. Just drop it.