Food Pods coming to Philadelphia?

[thoth]

I try to avoid overt shilling on PS, but I'm really curious what people think about this. Because NAC is a national publication, they tend to draw less local readers than other Philly-based news sites (and less nutty commentators). So, I have no sense if people will freak out or really support this idea. Could see either happening.

Councilman Confirms Timeline for Philly Food Pods – Next American City

For those of you unfamiliar with this concept, a few years back Portland allowed mobile food vendors (i.e. food trucks, carts, etc) to use their vending licenses on privately owned parking lots, as opposed to designated vending spots, like a parking lane in the downtown. Since then, their food truck scene has exploded, and many neighborhoods now have so-called "food pods", clusters of trucks on what were underutilized surface lots. Neighborhoods rapidly increase their dining options, food trucks do better business, culinary aspirants have a cheaper way to but their foot in the dining scene, and the city makes money off increased vending licenses. Everyone wins, right?

But I can already imagine Phillydelphinz crying about competition for brick-and-mortar restaurants, how someone's gonna open a food truck next to their house, how the whole city will be on fire in six months. Squilla is working on a new zoning ordinance which he says will be out before November, so hopefully some of the freakout can be avoided by talking this issue over on a forum the same dozen people post in all the time. Thoughts?

[raider.adam]

I try to avoid overt shilling on PS, but I'm really curious what people think about this. Because NAC is a national publication, they tend to draw less local readers than other Philly-based news sites (and less nutty commentators). So, I have no sense if people will freak out or really support this idea. Could see either happening.

Councilman Confirms Timeline for Philly Food Pods – Next American City

For those of you unfamiliar with this concept, a few years back Portland allowed mobile food vendors (i.e. food trucks, carts, etc) to use their vending licenses on privately owned parking lots, as opposed to designated vending spots, like a parking lane in the downtown. Since then, their food truck scene has exploded, and many neighborhoods now have so-called "food pods", clusters of trucks on what were underutilized surface lots. Neighborhoods rapidly increase their dining options, food trucks do better business, culinary aspirants have a cheaper way to but their foot in the dining scene, and the city makes money off increased vending licenses. Everyone wins, right?

But I can already imagine Phillydelphinz crying about competition for brick-and-mortar restaurants, how someone's gonna open a food truck next to their house, how the whole city will be on fire in six months. Squilla is working on a new zoning ordinance which he says will be out before November, so hopefully some of the freakout can be avoided by talking this issue over on a forum the same dozen people post in all the time. Thoughts?

I like the dynamism of food options being able to spring up in quick and easy scenarios. It significantly lowers the cost of entry, but I also do understand concerns of them just rolling up on a vacant lot that would normally be residential.

I would say there should be guidelines on where they can be located (zoned commercial or something) and that the license fees should be significant enough to offset the increased cost that should be involved with random health inspections.

Currently this is a big fight in Chicago right now because food trucks are pulling up right in front of restaurants during lunch time and stealing a bunch of business with a significantly smaller amount of overhead. Of course the reverse is that cheaper food options is not a bad thing for consumers.

So, the Dynamist in me says let them run wild with the minimal amount of regulation you need to facilitate it, but the pragmatist in me also realizes there are cocnerns of launching a bomb in the middle of everything also.

[thoth]

I like the dynamism of food options being able to spring up in quick and easy scenarios. It significantly lowers the cost of entry, but I also do understand concerns of them just rolling up on a vacant lot that would normally be residential.

I would say there should be guidelines on where they can be located (zoned commercial or something) and that the license fees should be significant enough to offset the increased cost that should be involved with random health inspections.

Currently this is a big fight in Chicago right now because food trucks are pulling up right in front of restaurants during lunch time and stealing a bunch of business with a significantly smaller amount of overhead. Of course the reverse is that cheaper food options is not a bad thing for consumers.

So, the Dynamist in me says let them run wild with the minimal amount of regulation you need to facilitate it, but the pragmatist in me also realizes there are cocnerns of launching a bomb in the middle of everything also.

I think those are mostly logical concepts and will probably be addressed in the new code. What's happening in Philadelphia now is the "roaming" system, where the city's ordinances are so restrictive that some food vendors just set up shop wherever and hope that they don't get caught. Providing more options, and giving vendors the option to be corralled into certain vacant lots (i agree that not every vacant lot is going to be a good fit for this) will, if anything, cut down on the likelihood of a food cart rolling up in front of a restaurant.

However, I generally feel that complaints from restaurant owners about potentially being undercut by trucks is a bit senseless. Most people decide whether they feel like they want to either go to a restaurant and sit down or eat at a food cart for a meal, I don't think one is going to be robbing tons of customers from the other. I can't see a food truck pulling up in front of Marathon Grill and all the customers flipping over their tables cause they can get a hoagie for $2 less. Not to mention that clustering food options usually increases foot traffic in a given area.

[raider.adam]

I think those are mostly logical concepts and will probably be addressed in the new code. What's happening in Philadelphia now is the "roaming" system, where the city's ordinances are so restrictive that some food vendors just set up shop wherever and hope that they don't get caught. Providing more options, and giving vendors the option to be corralled into certain vacant lots (i agree that not every vacant lot is going to be a good fit for this) will, if anything, cut down on the likelihood of a food cart rolling up in front of a restaurant.

However, I generally feel that complaints from restaurant owners about potentially being undercut by trucks is a bit senseless. Most people decide whether they feel like they want to either go to a restaurant and sit down or eat at a food cart for a meal, I don't think one is going to be robbing tons of customers from the other. I can't see a food truck pulling up in front of Marathon Grill and all the customers flipping over their tables cause they can get a hoagie for $2 less. Not to mention that clustering food options usually increases foot traffic in a given area.

I agree. In general it is safer to side with opening up the system than to keep it restricted.

[qweezyq]

I think those are mostly logical concepts and will probably be addressed in the new code. What's happening in Philadelphia now is the "roaming" system, where the city's ordinances are so restrictive that some food vendors just set up shop wherever and hope that they don't get caught. Providing more options, and giving vendors the option to be corralled into certain vacant lots (i agree that not every vacant lot is going to be a good fit for this) will, if anything, cut down on the likelihood of a food cart rolling up in front of a restaurant.

However, I generally feel that complaints from restaurant owners about potentially being undercut by trucks is a bit senseless. Most people decide whether they feel like they want to either go to a restaurant and sit down or eat at a food cart for a meal, I don't think one is going to be robbing tons of customers from the other. I can't see a food truck pulling up in front of Marathon Grill and all the customers flipping over their tables cause they can get a hoagie for $2 less. Not to mention that clustering food options usually increases foot traffic in a given area.

Yeah but what about brick and mortar take out places?

[phillyaggie]

Yeah but what about brick and mortar take out places?

There is no law that says an incumbent business idea will continue to be successful into the future. New competition may mean obsolescence of old ideas if the old ideas don't change or differentiate themselves.

[Naveen]

What is driving the recent food truck madness? I remember everyone always taking a dim view of food trucks; now they're all the rage.

[phillyaggie]

What is driving the recent food truck madness? I remember everyone always taking a dim view of food trucks; now they're all the rage.

the recession?

people still want to eat out, so they downsize. that's the consumer part. on the other side of the equation, probably some creative people got laid off and finally decided to be their own boss and here's an idea that doesn't cost as much money as a brick and mortar place.

same could be said for the now-abated cupcake craze... people want a mini-vacation and new entrepreneurs with some money want to provide it to them...

[raider.adam]

What is driving the recent food truck madness? I remember everyone always taking a dim view of food trucks; now they're all the rage.

I've always liked street vendors.

Which is odd considering how I freak out over people and food handling.

[mixiboi]

When I hear Food Pods I imagine a Futuretech Lemonade stand....or a outdoor mall food court...

[StatesRights]

When I hear Food Pods I imagine a Futuretech Lemonade stand....or a outdoor mall food court...

"Food Pods"



I was thinking Soylent Green, lol i dont know why...

[phillyaggie]

^ I was thinking the vision of human babies grown in pods by the machines in The Matrix.

[Baloo]

What is driving the recent food truck madness? I remember everyone always taking a dim view of food trucks; now they're all the rage.

I don't understand it either. Lord only knows what kind of health regulations the carts have to follow vs. actual restaurants. It always gives me the creeps. I can never eat from a food truck, haha.

I think it's because a lot of the trucks though have a lot of different ethnic specialties, especially middle-eastern stuff, I'm hard-pressed in thinking of a well-renowned Mediterranean or Greek restaurant here in the city really, but there are tons of food trucks that sell felafels, gyros, and the like.

[BarryG]

I don't understand it either. Lord only knows what kind of health regulations the carts have to follow vs. actual restaurants. It always gives me the creeps. I can never eat from a food truck, haha.

I think it's because a lot of the trucks though have a lot of different ethnic specialties, especially middle-eastern stuff, I'm hard-pressed in thinking of a well-renowned Mediterranean or Greek restaurant here in the city really, but there are tons of food trucks that sell felafels, gyros, and the like.

Mama's Vegetarian @ 20th & Ranstead has better falafel and pita than any cart.

[phillyaggie]

^ and if you really want to go upmarket, Zahav is perhaps the best Mediterranean restaurant in America... or one of the top 10.

The falafel truck at 16th and JFK probably gives Mama's the best run for its money for having good falafel sandwiches. And the husband-wife team that run it have hairnets and gloves and seem fairly hygienic... which doesn't say much, I realize.

[BarryG]

^ and if you really want to go upmarket, Zahav is perhaps the best Mediterranean restaurant in America... or one of the top 10.

Kanella (technically Cypriot cuisine) is excellent as well. Not that you can get a gyro at either place, and Zahav stopped serving falafel and other stereotypical Israeli dishes years ago. Kanella has falafel and it's really good.

The falafel truck at 16th and JFK probably gives Mama's the best run for its money for having good falafel sandwiches. And the husband-wife team that run it have hairnets and gloves and seem fairly hygienic... which doesn't say much, I realize.

Always want to try this place but I can't tear myself away from Mama's (the fact that it's several blocks closer to my office and the truck is closed weekends helps too).

I doubt the truck bakes their own pita like Mama's, and there is no way their hummus is as good either (or is it?) but on the other hand, Mama's salads aren't that great, even in the summer when produce should be better (however this mimics the typical Israeli/Palestinian fast food style nearly perfectly). How are the veggies at the truck?

If we're talking just falafel balls, Christos (aka Falafel Nazi) at 20th & Market needs to be in the conversation. But whatever kind of food it is that he makes overall is not really comparable to traditional Mediterranean falafel dishes.

[phillyaggie]

yes, Kanella is really good and not often talked about.

I didn't realize Zahav doesn't offer falafel. hmm


As for Mama's vs Falafel Nazi vs King of Falafel (16th/JFK truck): I dated this girl over the summer and since she's a PhD student at Drexel/Hahneman and isn't vegetarian but wants cheap and tasty eats, she swore by the 16th/JFK truck. I'd eaten there before, but for my cheap lunch falafel sandwich or platter, I prefer Mama's even though it is a few blocks farther away than the King of Falafel truck (I'm at 17th and Arch). So she and I did a challenge of taste since she'd not tried Mama's. After trying Mama's, she still preferred King of Falafel. We didn't last much longer after that... figures! haha Mama's is perhaps the best, Falafel Nazi comes close. Crisp is just ok, and other places around town... eh. The New YOrk gyro truck has good cheap eats but their falafel balls really aren't crisp and aren't that good... but that truck always has amazing fragrant food of all the spices that draws me in... it's the veggie platter with falafel and a can of coke for only $5 that likely does it for me.

now as for some other places around town, i still need to try (and have heard good things) is Leila Cafe at 13th and South. I tried the dinner platter at the new Diwan Turkish at 6th and Bainbridge and wasn't blown away other than for its price. Leziz Turkish is supposed to be pretty good (at 5th and just south of South). DOn't know much about Estia though I walk past it quite often... so how is it?

[BarryG]

yes, Kanella is really good and not often talked about.

I didn't realize Zahav doesn't offer falafel. hmm


As for Mama's vs Falafel Nazi vs King of Falafel (16th/JFK truck): I dated this girl over the summer and since she's a PhD student at Drexel/Hahneman and isn't vegetarian but wants cheap and tasty eats, she swore by the 16th/JFK truck. I'd eaten there before, but for my cheap lunch falafel sandwich or platter, I prefer Mama's even though it is a few blocks farther away than the King of Falafel truck (I'm at 17th and Arch). So she and I did a challenge of taste since she'd not tried Mama's. After trying Mama's, she still preferred King of Falafel. We didn't last much longer after that... figures! haha Mama's is perhaps the best, Falafel Nazi comes close. Crisp is just ok, and other places around town... eh. The New YOrk gyro truck has good cheap eats but their falafel balls really aren't crisp and aren't that good... but that truck always has amazing fragrant food of all the spices that draws me in... it's the veggie platter with falafel and a can of coke for only $5 that likely does it for me.

now as for some other places around town, i still need to try (and have heard good things) is Leila Cafe at 13th and South. I tried the dinner platter at the new Diwan Turkish at 6th and Bainbridge and wasn't blown away other than for its price. Leziz Turkish is supposed to be pretty good (at 5th and just south of South). DOn't know much about Estia though I walk past it quite often... so how is it?

Estia is awesome but $$$$. Fantastic fresh fish but you're paying per pound, and it's served a la carte. Octopus is great too. Their dips are pretty good, don't think they have falafel. They have a pre-theater menu for $30pp or something but it's not the same experience. I like Leziz but it's overpriced IMO. Worth it for a night out (it's BYO) but not a good value for takeout IMO.

Alyan's on 4th below South is decent, good price but the meat is a lot better than the veggie stuff. Weak falafel and veggies and pickles are meh. Supermarket pita, bland dips. Still I would try it if you're in the 'hood because of convenience and price. But you can get amazing falafel and fresh pillowy pita at Mama's for the same price or less.

[raider.adam]

Estia is awesome but $$$$. Fantastic fresh fish but you're paying per pound, and it's served a la carte. Octopus is great too. Their dips are pretty good, don't think they have falafel. They have a pre-theater menu for $30pp or something but it's not the same experience. I like Leziz but it's overpriced IMO. Worth it for a night out (it's BYO) but not a good value for takeout IMO.

I agree about Estia.

As for healthy inspections, from someone I knwo associated with the health department, health inspections, for trucks and stoerefronts, tend to take place based on complaint, not proactive inspection.

[thoth]

What is driving the recent food truck madness? I remember everyone always taking a dim view of food trucks; now they're all the rage.

Probably because people started expanding beyond standard fare like breakfast sandwiches, hot dogs, etc. Now you have a whole different variety of foods you can get fairly inexpensively.