What happens when you can't change someone for a crime because they are too young?

**mixiboi** · 08-07-2012, 11:12 PM

That is the question here....

DA: Boy, 10, charged in Phila. home invasion | 6abc.com

The robbery happened at 3:30 p.m. Monday in the 1200 block of Luzerne Street in the Juniata Park section of the city.

The victim, a 51-year-old woman, was beaten by three boys during the robbery. She said they used household items, including a plunger, and even threw a potted plant at her.

The woman, a widow, was described by police as having 'mental disabilities.'
She was found by neighbors cowering in the back yard.

She was taken to the hospital to be treated for her injuries and was back at home on Tuesday afternoon.

Captain John Gallagher says the trio made off with just $20 after rifling through the apartment.

Investigators tell Action News they are looking for at least two more suspects between the ages of 7 and 9.

Because of state law, if the other two boys are in fact under 10, they can't be charged in this crime.

Investigators say as soon as they identify them, they will be referred to the Department of Human Services.

This is a horrible disgusting crime and they should be punish, but they also only been on this planet for less then 10 years, so what do you do at this point...as we all know DHS is just another system that won't turn these boys around....

I don't know, I gotta wrap my head around this more.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 08-07-2012, 11:19 PM

Apparently the mother heard/saw this at some point and told someone to call the police. At least she knew this was wrong.

**mixiboi** · 08-08-2012, 12:59 AM

Yeah the story goes into details that the change of behavior was noticed before this happen, still it so frustrating sad not having a better solution/end to this..l

**mikkifinn** · 08-08-2012, 01:29 AM

If someone is under 10, the DA can file what is called an "incorrigibility petition". which basically states that the kid is out of control & the parent(s) cannot handle them. Then the courts can intervene, but this takes the form of social service-type stuff. If there is a problem with the parent(s) that is causing the incorrigibility, then the kid can enter the juvenile system, but on the dependency side, as opposed to the delinquency (criminal) side, which means that DHS gets involved, and the kid can be placed elsewhere, if need be.
At least with the incorrigibility petition, a judge can monitor the kid/situation.

This case is extremely disturbing. I am sure they targeted her & her family b/c of her ethnicity.
However, do you remember that other case a month or so ago, where this older woman who was a bus monitor was taunted & harassed, and even poked/shoved by kids on the bus? They were spoiled suburban brats from upstate NY, or somewhere like that, and all the parties were American.I think her name was Karen Kline. It was videotaped & it caused a huge stir b/c it was so abusive. A lot of people donated money to her b/c the whole thing was so awful. Anyway, although the Philly attack was physically violent, it just shows that people all over are raising kids who have no respect for adults / their elders. Obviously, these kids in Philly probably have way different backgrounds & issues, to say the least, but it is kind of the same theme, and it's really sickening. No charges were filed in the bus case, but they should have done something to those kids.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 08-08-2012, 07:22 AM

Boy, 10, is charged in attack on woman

Tran, who does not speak English, told a reporter through Tien that she was all right physically.

At first, she nervously avoided saying what had happened before reluctantly stating that "they came and they beat me up." Tran used the jump rope to demonstrate how one boy stood over her and whipped her with it, before pointing to a stick that she said had been broken during the attack.

The boys rifled through her cabinets, looking for money that was not there, according to Tran; eventually, they took her purse and $20.

Tien said that another family on the property, hearing Tran's screams and cries, brought the boy's mother over, who immediately said to call the police.

The mother was extremely cooperative, Gallagher said, and told police that she had suspected her son of being involved.

He has been impossible for her to control, Gallagher said, and she suspects him of other crimes in the neighborhood. The family declined to comment.

So what do you do with him? Kill him? Does he have any redeeming qualities whatsoever?

**BarryG** · 08-08-2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Boy, 10, is charged in attack on woman

So what do you do with him? Kill him? Does he have any redeeming qualities whatsoever?

Life is precious and God and the bible.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 08-08-2012, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by BarryG

Life is precious and God and the bible.

yeah...thought so.

**ArcticSplash** · 08-08-2012, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Boy, 10, is charged in attack on woman

So what do you do with him? Kill him? Does he have any redeeming qualities whatsoever?

This is why abortion should be legal and remain so. Just sayin'

**eldondre** · 08-08-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Apparently the mother heard/saw this at some point and told someone to call the police. At least she knew this was wrong.

ien said that another family on the property, hearing Tran's screams and cries, brought the boy's mother over, who immediately said to call the police.

The mother was extremely cooperative, Gallagher said, and told police that she had suspected her son of being involved.

He has been impossible for her to control, Gallagher said, and she suspects him of other crimes in the neighborhood.

obviously we don't know the whole situation but certainly it defies easy categorization. arctic splash-abortion is legal.

**OldMama** · 08-08-2012, 11:50 AM

As someone who worked with kids for many years, this still horrifies me. It sounds like the mother knew the kid was trouble and felt helpless about how to deal with him. No mention of a dad. I truly believe that this kid needs to be removed from his home. Nothing will change as long as he is allowed to return home to a mother who cannot manage him. I've seen this over and over and jails will be crowded as long as we don't employ drastic measures.

**Cya** · 08-08-2012, 11:58 AM

Whatever happened to a kid this age getting an asskicking from a family member of the victim?

When I was a kid, you didn't do stupid sh*t like this because so-and-so's brother/sister will come and kick your butt.
This kid needs an ass beating- in the streets, IMO.

**OffenseTaken** · 08-08-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

This is a horrible disgusting crime and they should be punish, but they also only been on this planet for less then 10 years, so what do you do at this point...as we all know DHS is just another system that won't turn these boys around....

I don't know, I gotta wrap my head around this more.

I know it was a typo, but I think it answers your question: "What happens when you can't change someone..."

There's no reason to think this kid is any more redeemable than Lionel Tate.

**PhillyTex** · 08-08-2012, 01:26 PM

To top it all off, the headline on nbc10.com read, "Mother Rats Out 10-yr Old Son" (emphasis mine.)

Even our local news services preach Stop Snitchin'

Pathetic.

**seand** · 08-08-2012, 01:52 PM

A 10-year-old does have the capacity to change. Look at the kids used as soldiers by the LRA in central Africa. They are forced to kill, rape neighbors, even family members. Kids do have the capacity to recover and become productive citizens over time but who knows if he'll get what is needed in our system.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 08-08-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by seand

A 10-year-old does have the capacity to change. Look at the kids used as soldiers by the LRA in central Africa. They are forced to kill, rape neighbors, even family members. Kids do have the capacity to recover and become productive citizens over time but who knows if he'll get what is needed in our system.

They were *forced* to commit such acts. This kid did it of his own accord; he started out verbally harassing her and it escalated from there into a physical assault, and sadly, even his own mother said she can't control him.

**seand** · 08-08-2012, 02:46 PM

Well obviously something has broken down horribly in that kid's upbringing (and he needs to be put in a different setting ASAP) but its ridiculous to say there is no way a 10-year-old can't be rehabilitated. What this kid did, a million school yard bullies would do as well, if they thought they would get away with it. Its disgusting but its not beyond the pale of bullying that happens in school yards across America, just way, way more severe.

Assaulting your neighbor with a plunger is not the same as say hacking up your family with a machete, as many child soldiers in L.R.A. were forced to do, even if they were *forced*.

**mixiboi** · 08-08-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by mikkifinn

, it just shows that people all over are raising kids who have no respect for adults / their elders.

20 kids out of 100 million does not make a case for that. The only difference is now we have social media that makes us aware of this 24/7.

**mikkifinn** · 08-09-2012, 01:45 AM

Well, yes...maybe. But I don't mean "every single parent", and I am not bashing anyone's parenting skills. I mean that compared to 30, 20, even 10 years ago, when we were raised, things were a lot different & kids were generally taught to respect authority & adults. For example, if you got in trouble in school, you were in trouble at home, too. Now it's the teacher's fault. If you misbehaved on the block, a neighbor could chastise you & you would listen & be afraid they would tell your parents. Now a parent might yell at them to mind their own business, or worse. Cya kind of made that point, too.

I just think a lot has changed.There are more single-parent households, both parents usually have to work, there is less parental involvement, and less or no acceptance of responsibility. There are a million contributing factors, but now it seems to be more endemic. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence, and if you talk to people about this, especially those who deal with/work with children on a daily basis, everyone has stories of their own about this development over the years. While I agree with your point about social media, I just don't think that is the only reason for it seeming prevalent now. But that has just been my own personal experience & observation. Obviously, with regard to the kids in this story, there are a whole host of issues that go beyond any of this.

**Dayman** · 08-09-2012, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

They were *forced* to commit such acts. This kid did it of his own accord; he started out verbally harassing her and it escalated from there into a physical assault, and sadly, even his own mother said she can't control him.

Some kids are sh!tty.

**seand** · 08-09-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by mikkifinn

Well, yes...maybe. But I don't mean "every single parent", and I am not bashing anyone's parenting skills. I mean that compared to 30, 20, even 10 years ago, when we were raised, things were a lot different & kids were generally taught to respect authority & adults. For example, if you got in trouble in school, you were in trouble at home, too. Now it's the teacher's fault. If you misbehaved on the block, a neighbor could chastise you & you would listen & be afraid they would tell your parents. Now a parent might yell at them to mind their own business, or worse.

This is huge. Its one of the biggest problems with discipline in schools as well. It used to be parents would respond to kids getting in trouble at school as a reason to make sure the kid did not do it again. Now by default, its always the school's fault.