Live stop

**brunette49** · 04-04-2011, 09:11 AM

I saw this logging onto yahoo this morning? I know my son was driving around with a expired registration due to an oversight. I didn't realize this went on.

Attorney sues Philadelphia after daughter stranded by ‘Live Stop’ - Yahoo! News

**radiocolin** · 04-04-2011, 12:57 PM

http://www.phila.gov/pac/pdfs/2_-__Live_Stop_Progr.pdf

They're obligated to take you home, to a police station, or to a transit hub. If they were left in West Philly, they either refused transit or the officer acted improperly.

I have absolutely no problem with the idea that if you don't have your vehicle registered and your insurance current, or don't have a valid license, your car gets impounded. I honestly didn't know this wasn't standard practice outside of Philly.

Tehran? Give me a break.

**fiveomar** · 04-04-2011, 01:16 PM

I don't see the need to provide an actual registration card when you're driving in-state. Don't the police already have access to see if your registration is current?

Anyway, I think that the live-stop program is a good program, they just need to make sure officers are following the rules. This sounds like an isolated incident.

**Gio7707** · 04-04-2011, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by radiocolin

http://www.phila.gov/pac/pdfs/2_-__Live_Stop_Progr.pdf

They're obligated to take you home, to a police station, or to a transit hub. If they were left in West Philly, they either refused transit or the officer acted improperly.

I have absolutely no problem with the idea that if you don't have your vehicle registered and your insurance current, or don't have a valid license, your car gets impounded. I honestly didn't know this wasn't standard practice outside of Philly.

Tehran? Give me a break.

Yup, completely agree with you, the first suit probably will not hold in court unless it will fail on some technicality issues (there are always loopholes in the law, that's why we have lawyers)..

The second suit " the officer acted improperly " will definitely be considered as a valid lawsuit ..They must drive you to the nearest transit ..( PROTECT AND SERVE )

In general this all could have been avoided, but the ball is rolling ....

DUPLICATE TOPIC :

http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...eing-sued.html

**gren** · 04-04-2011, 01:34 PM

or, if requested, by transporting the occupants to the nearest public transportation hub

I assume we'll hear one or multiple stories about what actually happened as this case progresses. The case might settle what it means to 'turn down service' and how persistent the officer must be in offering it. I can imagine a scenario where upon refusing to take them to their home (if it was far away) the couple said flippantly refused service and officer left them. It would seem bizarre to me that the officer would leave if they were telling him they felt unsafe and wanted to leave the area. But officers have done worse things, no doubt.

**desolate** · 04-04-2011, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by radiocolin

http://www.phila.gov/pac/pdfs/2_-__Live_Stop_Progr.pdf

They're obligated to take you home, to a police station, or to a transit hub. If they were left in West Philly, they either refused transit or the officer acted improperly.

I have absolutely no problem with the idea that if you don't have your vehicle registered and your insurance current, or don't have a valid license, your car gets impounded. I honestly didn't know this wasn't standard practice outside of Philly.

Tehran? Give me a break.

Please.

When I was stopped and towed in NJ for it being expired by one day ten years ago...they left me on the side of the road becuase it was a neighborhood.

THis is anywhere.

It's a privilege not a right and all they ask is you to register your car.

I let it lapse and had to pay the towing/impound but did have the ticket dropped becuase I went and paid it immediately.

**drewrob23** · 04-04-2011, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by fiveomar

I don't see the need to provide an actual registration card when you're driving in-state. Don't the police already have access to see if your registration is current?

Anyway, I think that the live-stop program is a good program, they just need to make sure officers are following the rules. This sounds like an isolated incident.

Isolated incident? I've seen plenty of females with babies, left on the side of the road, while their car was towed. I'm willing to concede though, that I never even knew that the police are supposed to escort you after they confiscate your car. I'm guessing that a lot of people weren't aware of this. I'm sure this isn't the first time that the police have done something like this. The only reason we even know, is because the woman involved, happens to have a parent that's an attorney.

**Eastcoast** · 04-04-2011, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

Isolated incident? I've seen plenty of females with babies, left on the side of the road, while their car was towed.

Where the hell are you hanging out?

**Marc** · 04-04-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by http://www.phila.gov/pac/pdfs/2_-__Live_Stop_Progr.pdf

5. When it is determined during the course of a lawful vehicle investigation that the operator is
in violation of any provisions identified above. the investigating officer shall:
A. Confirm the status of the operator’s license or lack thereof and/or the vehicle’s registration.

Am I correct in interpreting this to mean they actually consult a system of record to verify validity or is this just a "papers, please" exercise?

**drewrob23** · 04-04-2011, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Where the hell are you hanging out?

I've noticed this happens more on Roosevelt Blvd, than anywhere else. Then again, anyone who has to leave their car, while they're on the blvd, probably has a long walk a head of them.

**radiocolin** · 04-04-2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Marc

Am I correct in interpreting this to mean they actually consult a system of record to verify validity or is this just a "papers, please" exercise?

The list says nothing about "nonposession of documents". It's for cars which are not registered or insured, or licenses which are suspended. I don't know how it's enforced, however.

**stock** · 04-04-2011, 05:09 PM

This subject was started the other day, same section.

http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...eing-sued.html

**OldMaestro** · 04-05-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

Isolated incident? I've seen plenty of females with babies, left on the side of the road, while their car was towed. I'm willing to concede though, that I never even knew that the police are supposed to escort you after they confiscate your car. I'm guessing that a lot of people weren't aware of this. I'm sure this isn't the first time that the police have done something like this. The only reason we even know, is because the woman involved, happens to have a parent that's an attorney.

How do you know they were left there after the car is towed? I'm on the boulevard every day and don't recall noticing this or being somewhere long enough to witness a mom with a baby pulled over, car towed and left on the side or the road.

**brunette49** · 04-05-2011, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by stock

This subject was started the other day, same section.

http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...eing-sued.html

Sorry, didn't notice that.

**O.H. Lee** · 04-06-2011, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by fiveomar

I don't see the need to provide an actual registration card when you're driving in-state. Don't the police already have access to see if your registration is current?

Anyway, I think that the live-stop program is a good program, they just need to make sure officers are following the rules. This sounds like an isolated incident.

The Motor Vehicle Code requires you to carry your drivers license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance while you are driving.

PennDot computers and other states for that matter, do go down once in a while. Actually, early every morning there is an hour or two period where BMV is out of service and you cannot run tags or licenses.

**O.H. Lee** · 04-06-2011, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Marc

Am I correct in interpreting this to mean they actually consult a system of record to verify validity or is this just a "papers, please" exercise?

The list says nothing about "nonposession of documents". It's for cars which are not registered or insured, or licenses which are suspended. I don't know how it's enforced, however.

Before a car can be Live stopped, the violation must be verified through BMV. If you don't have your reg and BMV is down your car won't be live stopped. If it is taking an inordinate amount of time for a PPA tow truck to get on location, the Live Stop can be cancelled, but it has to be thoroughly documented. There are a few other exceptions also.

All in all Live Stop has been a success, in my opinion. Before we would write tickets and watch the drivers stick them into a glove box filled with other tickets. Scofflaws with thousands of dollars of fines without a care in the world. Handling accidents where unlicensed, unregistered and or uninsured drivers would just laugh and walk away from an accident, while the other driver got royally screwed.

There were and are a few bumps in the road, but overall it has helped enormously.

**Marc** · 04-06-2011, 06:38 AM

Thanks OHLee, appreciate the followup and clarifications.

**StrangeTanks** · 04-06-2011, 08:57 AM

I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, but thats just me. Same thing happened to me on 76, the cop the drove me to the next exit ramp and dropped me off. I knew I was in the wrong, so I called a cab and went and took care of everything the next day. This guy is one of those weenies that runs around suing the neighbors for barking dogs and coffee shops for mental distress when they run out of his favorite coffee.

Piece of advice for folks though. Keep your paperwork in your wallet not in your car. At the impound lot, I saw people wait in line for 3 hours so they could be escorted out to the lot to get paperwork, then they had to get back in line to settle up and get their vehicle.

**drewrob23** · 04-06-2011, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by OldMaestro

How do you know they were left there after the car is towed? I'm on the boulevard every day and don't recall noticing this or being somewhere long enough to witness a mom with a baby pulled over, car towed and left on the side or the road.

Just an observation.

If you haven't noticed it yourself, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I already mentioned that a number of people probably don't even know that the cops are supposed to escort you, after they have your car towed. You also have to realize that a number of people are distrustful of cops or they don't want anyone seeing them getting a ride in the squad car, for fear of being labeled a snitch.

Even Parking Wars had an episode where a father with twins had to walk home because his car was taken by the PPA. Even as the dude complained about having to walk a long distance with 3 year old twins, the police didn't say anything about giving him a lift.

**LUCas** · 04-06-2011, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by drewrob23

Isolated incident? I've seen plenty of females with babies, left on the side of the road, while their car was towed.

How many females with babies have you seen this happen to? Just curious what "plenty of" is. And how you managed to see that they were stopped by police, had their car towed, and abandoned there while you were passing by on the Boulevard.