Marathon @ 10th & Walnut to become new "American" pub

[loveisnoise]

So? That is one place that they rented. They own the buildings elsewhere. You're acting like they're shuddering the corporation up, and unless you have some evidence to back up these claims then you're just an internet theorist thumping your sysco chicken breasts in illusionary pride.

Broad & Chestnut now officially done, too.

Another Marathon Grill shutdown | Philadelphia Inquirer | 12/07/2011

[MTEMPLE]

The "fine dining" numbers are BS. Philadelphia lost sight of fine dinning when Neil Stein first appeared. Expensive dining, trendy dinning maybe but not fine dining.

[CherieV]

The "fine dining" numbers are BS. Philadelphia lost sight of fine dinning when Neil Stein first appeared. Expensive dining, trendy dinning maybe but not fine dining.

What are you considering 'fine dining'? LBF, Fountain, Lacroix, Vetri, La Famiglia? Steak Houses? Some are doing Okay some not so much..Same trend exists in most other trendy food cities. Mark Vetri has the advantage here because this size of Vetri is sustainable for fine dining. 100+ seats are not going to be filled anymore. It's not about the $$$ it's about the atmosphere.

[CherieV]

Not to high-jack the thread but Olive Garden is dragging Darden down. BTW they own and manage Red Lobster, Capital Grille, Red Lobster, LongHorn Steakhouse
Bahama Breeze, Seasons 52
Capital Grille continues to do very well..despite the soft economy and competitive players in the category.
Darden's profit off amid struggles at Olive Garden - MarketWatch

[loveisnoise]

You can couch quarterback all you wish, but the CC olive garden is packed open until close. What's your point?

Not to high-jack the thread but Olive Garden is dragging Darden down. BTW they own and manage Red Lobster, Capital Grille, Red Lobster, LongHorn Steakhouse
Bahama Breeze, Seasons 52
Capital Grille continues to do very well..despite the soft economy and competitive players in the category.
Darden's profit off amid struggles at Olive Garden - MarketWatch

[CherieV]

You can couch quarterback all you wish, but the CC olive garden is packed open until close. What's your point?

Really? How do you know? I track bev sales. That's how I judge who is busy and who isn't. I have access to that data...

[loveisnoise]

Really? How do you know? I track bev sales. That's how I judge who is busy and who isn't. I have access to that data...

That statement alone says that you're a youngin' who thinks you know it all, when 'bev sales' in CC nowhere equal quantitative gains during business lunch and dinner rushes.

[CherieV]

That statement alone says that you're a youngin' who thinks you know it all, when 'bev sales' in CC nowhere equal quantitative gains during business lunch and dinner rushes.

I beg to differ. I have lived and worked the rest industry in Phila for over 20 yrs. All aspects. This is well ingrained in my present profession. I work very closely with the restaurant groups not only in Phila but Nationally. You my friend are the one that does not 'know it all' in this case.

[BarryG]

The "fine dining" numbers are BS. Philadelphia lost sight of fine dinning when Neil Stein first appeared. Expensive dining, trendy dinning maybe but not fine dining.

Fine dining in this context is simply a price range.

I also agree that it is pretty whack to go into Amis or Distrito and pay those prices to listen to classic rock music. I blame the baby boomers and their refusal to wear a tie.

On the other hand, it's nice to have places like Barbuzzo where you can get awesome food without a stuffy atmosphere. As CherieV said, this is not a Philly thing but a national trend.

[MarketStEl]

We can revisit this in 6-12 months.

Moving on, is this a sign of a restaurant bubble in Phila? Over the past year there have been scores of new restaurants opening, with many of them falling in the high end fine dining category. The last weeks of September and the month of November alone saw at least six fine dining openings--Il Pittore, Vedge, Ela, Stateside, Route 6--and many other midrange openings. I can't think of any high profile closings, except for Adsum. Now we have a casual lunch and dinner spot being replaced with a concept from a former Lacroix chef-de-cusine. How many of these places can the city really support? What's wrong with another mid-range lunch/dinner spot here?

Haven't you heard? The middle class is disappearing. The brokers are walking off with all the money, and the rest of us are fighting over what's left.

IMO $25 pp is a midrange restaurant, "affordable" if you will. Enough beers and an appetizer along with the main and I can run up a tab like that at Moriarty's.

(Which still serves Philly's best Buffalo wings, BTW.)

Really ? How often do you walk around after 7pm ? Lived in Philly for 30+ years with the exception of the last 6 months. Still visit twice a month. Sunday thru Thursday.... Deadsville in center city.

You aren't in the right parts of town.

The stretch of Walnut that passes through my former Gayborhood stomping ground has activity just about every night save Monday and Tuesday, which are the slowest nights of the week in town. The sidewalks here will in all likelihood never be mobbed late at night the way they are in Times Square or Greenwich Village, but keep in mind that NYC is still ~4.5x as large as Philadelphia (city populations only) and that Manhattan alone is half again as big as the City of Philadelphia. Central Washington, DC, on a weekend night and Central Philly on a weekend night are comparably busy, and both cities are the hubs of comparably sized metropolitan areas.

I've lived here (a) almost as long as you have - 28 years, all of them in Washington Square West until Memorial Day this year - and (b) longer than I've lived anywhere else, including my forever hometown. I can still be found in town every Wednesday night and almost every weekend, and now in my work 'hood of Old City on the first Friday of each month. I can remember when it really WAS dead in Center City after 5 p.m. It's been in about the last 15 years or so that things have taken off, but taken off they have.

--Sandy "if I were a family of four, I'd be below the poverty line on my current salary" Smith

[CherieV]

Fine dining in this context is simply a price range.

I also agree that it is pretty whack to go into Amis or Distrito and pay those prices to listen to classic rock music. I blame the baby boomers and their refusal to wear a tie.

On the other hand, it's nice to have places like Barbuzzo where you can get awesome food without a stuffy atmosphere. As CherieV said, this is not a Philly thing but a national trend.

It's not the Boomers who won't get dressed it''s the Gen X-ers.

[hammersklavier]

Center City's website says that if you take all the closures and openings of restaurants, they have netted +8 in a year. That's cool, but not quite a boom.

That only counts Center City restos though. The most hoppin' places are N. Libs/Fishtown and East Passyunk right now.

You can couch quarterback all you wish, but the CC olive garden is packed open until close. What's your point?

One location does not a whole chain make.

[BarryG]

That only counts Center City restos though. The most hoppin' places are N. Libs/Fishtown and East Passyunk right now.

It doesn't even include Lombard or South streets. My dates may be a little off but I think 2010 saw Percy St, Stella and Fish all opened in that zone. Stella replaced a Cosi, I don't think Percy Street replaced anything, and Fish is the old Astral Plane spot but that closed a couple years before. Some casual spots opened farther east on South but with churn I'm assuming net zero. So thats another +2 right there, +3 if you consider Stella replacing Cosi a net gain, though they did have dinner service. Stella is pricier in any case.

[y.lama]

The "fine dining" numbers are BS. Philadelphia lost sight of fine dinning when Neil Stein first appeared. Expensive dining, trendy dinning maybe but not fine dining.

couldn't be more true - it actually was the exact second he appeared. you really have it figured out, life is so easy for you.

[loveisnoise]

I beg to differ. I have lived and worked the rest industry in Phila for over 20 yrs. All aspects. This is well ingrained in my present profession. I work very closely with the restaurant groups not only in Phila but Nationally. You my friend are the one that does not 'know it all' in this case.

OK genius, then instead of pulling up a lackluster national article about Olive Garden, pull up their Broad and Chestnut numbers and give me a report Ms. Professional.

[CherieV]

OK genius, then instead of pulling up a lackluster national article about Olive Garden, pull up their Broad and Chestnut numbers and give me a report Ms. Professional.

That information is NOT for a public forum. Perhaps OG does well in CC. I assume you frequent it often so therefore know. I on the other hand just keep track of my business via Neilson reports, BDN, NABCA data etc. As a whole Darden is being pulled down by that particular concept in their portfolio Nationally. That is what I do know..as it affects my business and focus. Trends are changing.

[loveisnoise]

That's a whole lot of words for "I don't know and was inflating my importance".

I know why Olive Garden sales have dipped, and it isn't something you can learn through a trade journal. All you have to do is look at their previous ways that they positioned their majority of suburban locations, and what vacancies exist today.

That information is NOT for a public forum. Perhaps OG does well in CC. I assume you frequent it often so therefore know. I on the other hand just keep track of my business via Neilson reports, BDN, NABCA data etc. As a whole Darden is being pulled down by that particular concept in their portfolio Nationally. That is what I do know..as it affects my business and focus. Trends are changing.

[CherieV]

That's a whole lot of words for "I don't know and was inflating my importance".

I know why Olive Garden sales have dipped, and it isn't something you can learn through a trade journal. All you have to do is look at their previous ways that they positioned their majority of suburban locations, and what vacancies exist today.

Actually, I'm more perplexed at why you care so much for craptastic OG? Is that where you hang out and eat in this City full of great food? Shame on you. That food is some of the worst in all of the Chains. Plus it's terribly unhealthy and fattening. And if being 'important' means I have and do a job well yes I guess I'm 'important'.

[loveisnoise]

Hmmm. A person who relies on relationships of restaurants, yet immaturely mocks them. Classy.

If you don't understand the purpose of the Olive Gardens in this world, and this city, then you are truly clueless and unfit for whatever job you claim to do. Meanwhile, your claim to have 'bev sales' for these places is obviously a farce, along with your snippets of knowledge that are based on google searches.

Actually, I'm more perplexed at why you care so much for craptastic OG? Is that where you hang out and eat in this City full of great food? Shame on you. That food is some of the worst in all of the Chains. Plus it's terribly unhealthy and fattening. And if being 'important' means I have and do a job well yes I guess I'm 'important'.

[CherieV]

Hmmm. A person who relies on relationships of restaurants, yet immaturely mocks them. Classy.

If you don't understand the purpose of the Olive Gardens in this world, and this city, then you are truly clueless and unfit for whatever job you claim to do. Meanwhile, your claim to have 'bev sales' for these places is obviously a farce, along with your snippets of knowledge that are based on google searches.

LMFAO...plenty of folks on here 'know' who I am. Your undying loyalty to OG is to be commended. Perhaps you work there. I didn't mean to offend you. BTW Darden is the parent name of Olive Garden's company.

Believe me I do get why chains like OG exist. Prices are low and the food is in a comfort zone. In a big City. if your NOT a tourist... NO I have no idea why you would patronize an Italian Chain restaurant in a City full of amazing restaurants in all price points. Sorry. However having an OG as well as other chains proves that our tourism is healthy which is good.

Lastly, Bev sales are none of anyone's business that doesn't have access to it. It's not public information for a reason. You have to pay to get that kind of data. Also, I never said the OG in Phila isn't doing well. It's not doing well Nationally that was the only point I ever was trying to make?! What's your point again besides trying to cause conflict where there isn't any to be had?

Back onto the thread at hand, I'm looking forward to Matt Levin getting back into action.At least the old Marathon space won't be an empty in an area that needs all the traffic it can get.