Resurrection Raided

[seand]

I encourage anyone to use mine as a template for sending their own emails, obviously. Or make your own.

[Reality Czech]

where's jeff cole when you need him?

Maybe he is at the LCB office drinking a Duvel laughing?

[raider.adam]

Not entirely true.

As a manufacturer wouldn't they want their prospective customers to have fewer choices, in turn making their odds of a purchase better?

The onus should NOT be on the retailer to check and see if the manufacturer is legally registered in the Commonwealth and especially if they purchase from a beer distributor!

As in the case of Pliny, it was a limited release anyway. Also, as for the "registered beer", the way it sounds is that it is just a lack of filing paperwork, not like it failed some sort of test. So, it isn't cutting choices, it is just inconveniencing a specific group of owners.

Now, if EVERY bar in Philly was raided, that may be a different story, but obviously it was a target against a specific set of owners.

Finally, it could bite them in the ass. It is the type of thing that starts reform movements ... which would create more competition.

[Cya]

That's a good letter, Seand. But in addition to asking the reps to investigate selective enforcement and harrasment, shouldn't we be asking them to streamline the PLCB processes as well?

Forgive me. I'm just today getting a crash course on how the PLCB enforces or tracks these types of beers that can be temporarily served for short periods. And how a word missing from a label's name or brewrys name can invalidate it according to the PLCB.
I gotta say, I don't fully understand it all. But it's obvious to even me that these owners were specifically targeted and the state police were pawns. Meanwhile, the PLCB doesn't even have an updated accurate list of actual beer names? Make's ones head hurt.

[eldondre]

As in the case of Pliny, it was a limited release anyway. Also, as for the "registered beer", the way it sounds is that it is just a lack of filing paperwork, not like it failed some sort of test. So, it isn't cutting choices, it is just inconveniencing a specific group of owners.

Now, if EVERY bar in Philly was raided, that may be a different story, but obviously it was a target against a specific set of owners.

Finally, it could bite them in the ass. It is the type of thing that starts reform movements ... which would create more competition.

seems unlikely it was industry motivated (unless it was a competing bar)...increasingly it seems like a discgruntled employee or former partner or something.

[Hiki]

It's true. It's probably because wine has a history of being cellared. It is supposed to be aged and therefore whomever thought up this arcane way of dealing with liquor in this state made allowances for wine. Historically beer doesn't have a good shelf life, especially American brews. But with breweries adapting new techniques it is possible to age beer. Some of the really heavy beer, triple bocks, Belgians, barley wines, which have very complex ingredients do need time for maturation.

It was a vendetta, though, as I'm sure there are quite few bars, Monks particulary, that this could still happen to.

[Hiki]

Here's what joesixpack had to say about it:

Among the beers that the State Police confiscated in the raid were a handful of bottles of Heavyweight Lunacy. South Jersey’s Heavyweight Brewing, of course, has been out of business for several years. Presumably the bottles were purchased years ago, when Heavyweight beers were, in fact, registered for sale in Pennsylvania. But that brand is no longer registered, for obvious reasons,which apparently makes them illegal.

(By the way, I don’t think this is an over-zealous interpretation of the law by the at the numbskulls at the Bureau of Liquor Enforcement. The law says the beer you sell must be registered, period.)

That law puts puts EVERY vintage bottle in EVERY bar at risk. As Leigh notes, her husband, Brendan Hartranft, has a thing for Orval, and he’s been aging bottles of the brand for years. What happens if Orval goes out of business or stops exporting its beers to the U.S.? Under the current rules, it appears it would be illegal to sell those beers - even though they were properly registered when they were purchased.

I know of several bars that are holding beers whose breweries are extinct. There are hundreds of “retired” beers out there. It’s a point of pride - like, this is the only place you’ll ever see this particular beer. In some cases, these treasures are worth thousands of dollars. But unless their names are properly registered, they’re presumably illegal.

The same thing goes if the brand name changes - a not uncommon occurrence as importers edit labels over the years. No aged bottle of Zotten, either, once Weyerbacher re-issues the brand, as announced, as Verboten.)

And how about all of those one-time-only anniversary beers we love? Not to pick on Weyerbacher, again, but I’d imagine that bottles of Decadence - issued for the brewery’s 10th anniversary in 2005 and, at 13% abv, intended to be aged - would be illegal to sell.

Allow me to finish by pointing out one obvious fact here: The same Pennsylvania law does not apply to wine.

So the wine cellar at Le Bec Fin is a treasure. But the beer cellar at Local 44 is a crime scene.

[seand]

It's true. It's probably because wine has a history of being cellared. It is supposed to be aged and therefore whomever thought up this arcane way of dealing with liquor in this state made allowances for wine. Historically beer doesn't have a good shelf life, especially American brews. But with breweries adapting new techniques it is possible to age beer. Some of the really heavy beer, triple bocks, Belgians, barley wines, which have very complex ingredients do need time for maturation.

It was a vendetta, though, as I'm sure there are quite few bars, Monks particulary, that this could still happen to.

They seized Monks own label because the PLCB had the a slightly different version of the name on the list so obviously the same rules just as badly enforced would shut down Monks as well. Probably every "gastro-pub" in the city if you get right down to it - which is a huge section of our restaurant scene.

[guzzijason]

It was a vendetta, though, as I'm sure there are quite few bars, Monks particulary, that this could still happen to.

Yes, especially considering that "Monk's Cafe Sour Flemish Red Ale" was one of the beers confiscated (because it's actually registered with the PLCB as "Monk's Café Ale").

edit: damn you seand [shaking fist]

__Jason

[raider.adam]

Yes, especially considering that "Monk's Cafe Sour Flemish Red Ale" was one of the beers confiscated (because it's actually registered with the PLCB as "Monk's Café Ale").

edit: damn you seand [shaking fist]

__Jason

Wouldn't be surprised if it was because they have a character limited field for their beer names and couldn't fit the whole name, so they truncated.

[BeckyJ]

Sent a version of seand's note to Frank Oliver, my rep. We'll see if anything comes of this.

ETA: Wrote to Taylor as well.

[amberstreet]

Expecially email Taylor he is on the Liquor Control The CHAIRMAN

John Taylor (Republican)


Philadelphia County (Part)


Occupation:
Legislator

Personal History:
Married to Evelyn E.


Education:
Northeast Catholic High School, 1973
University of Central Florida, 1980
Temple University School of Law, 1984


Member of the House 1985 to date

View my 2009-2010 session co-sponsorship memoranda


Standing Committee Assignments:

Liquor Control, Chairman
Urban Affairs

[sometimesilie]

It probably goes without saying, but remember to be polite, however much this pisses you the %*^# off.

[Uptown]

The Very One. I wonder is SuzieW is basking in the glow of a job well done.

Looks like the toad knew what she was talking about.

[guzzijason]

Here's what joesixpack had to say about it:

[snipped for brevity]

So the wine cellar at Le Bec Fin is a treasure. But the beer cellar at Local 44 is a crime scene.

Actually, Le Bec Fin's wine cellar was raided by the PLCB in (I think) 1998.

__Jason

[Voodoo]

Actually, Le Bec Fin's wine cellar was raided by the PLCB in (I think) 1998.

__Jason

Thought it was earlier. They were selling wines that were unavailable (legally) in Pennsylvania. The snitch turned out to be an unidentified competitor. After the dust settled, the end results (or epilogue) gave us all a greater wine selection in Pennsylvania.

[billy ross]

This is generating great publicity and awareness for the Hartranfts (sp?). If the LCB allows them to open tomorrow, their places will be packed.

It's sad that an operator who is trying to up the quality of what is going on is getting a hard time. I think that it's time that some higher-up political people intervene to call off the dogs. The point has been made.

[Hiki]

Thought it was earlier. They were selling wines that were unavailable (legally) in Pennsylvania. The snitch turned out to be an unidentified competitor. After the dust settled, the end results (or epilogue) gave us all a greater wine selection in Pennsylvania.

It is a different situation, though. The wines Le Bec had were never available for sale by the PLCB. That is not true, if what is being reported is true, of the beers which were confiscated. It's a totally screwed system for the state to authorize the sale of beer and then a year later come in a raid, calling that beer illegal.

[Voodoo]

It is a different situation, though.

Didn't say it was the same. I was simply adding to Jason's post.

edit: The Le Bec Fin incident helped update and improve the LCB's antiquated laws. Not a huge improvement, but an improvement.

[Matthias]

So which politicians need to be voted out of office to make it clear that we as a people will not tolerate such BS that undermines the quality of life in our communities?