The Divine Lorraine

**Eastcoast** · 10-03-2012, 04:35 PM

Smart car flagship dealer.

The whole dang building including the 4th, 5th and 6th floor ramped test drive facility and the rooftop proving grounds.

**raider.adam** · 10-03-2012, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

Smart car flagship dealer.

The whole dang building including the 4th, 5th and 6th floor ramped test drive facility and the rooftop proving grounds.

Could actually work off of Billy's ESP comparison and a previous idea.

Turn it into Haunted Laser Tag.

**Jayfar** · 10-03-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

You can't say the same about the DL. If it's not being inhabited, it's just a ten-floor building from the 1890's that used to be nice.

Naw, it's a 10-floor Willis G. Hale building. And you know what they say about Willis G. Hale:

"Willis G. Hale ain't nuthin' to f-ck with!" -- GroJLart

**billy ross** · 10-03-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Ah. "working with" and "owning" are two big differences.

Your memory is a bit short too. DL was only sealed a couple months ago (and still pretty much only the ground floor).

You're not making any sense. I said that it would be better to seal it for decades until the right time came than to demolish it and lose it forever. You keep coming back with non sequiturs.

How long has the Spring Garden passenger train station been derelict? It's still there, long forgotten. How about the Girard passenger train station? It's gone, forever. Which one has a chance of being restored? How about the Naval Home versus the Sears building? Demolishing historic buildings rather than tolerating an eyesore evidences silly vanity and short-sightedness. I was just checking out the Stetson factory, which was designed by a prolific Germantown architect. What moron decided to demolish that amazing complex in 1979? Had it been saved it'd be a very valuable landmark. What is it now? Crap. Economists call that destruction of wealth.

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

There are rumors of a Garces place going in there, that would be nice.

Edit:

Read some more. 125 loft apartments. I take it that is going to be in the DL itself? I wonder what he is going to do with all of the surrounding land. There are four acres to build on there. Plus there is a ton of vacant land on the other side of Melon Street.

Perhaps the best part of all of this is that development could start winter 2013! Although I suppose the longer it sits the more expensive it gets.

Not necessarily. Prices have been all over the place these last few years - labor is down, metals are up, cost of money is down, price of natural gas is down, price of fuel oil is up. Who know where prices will be in a year or three? If the unions come to their senses construction costs may drop dramatically in Philly. Technological change too (new materials or labor-saving ways of doing things) could decrease costs. Pex is way cheaper than copper, for instance, both in materials and labor, although I don't believe that pex is allowed in commercial buildings, yet.

**OffenseTaken** · 10-03-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Naw, it's a 10-floor Willis G. Hale building. And you know what they say about Willis G. Hale:

"Willis G. Hale ain't nuthin' to f-ck with!" -- GroJLart

Personally, I agree. Hell, it's beautiful! But it's hard to make a case for its architectural significance, when it was finished in the same year as the Monadnock in Chicago and the Wainwright in St. Louis. Compared to those two, it's a piece of Victorian bric-a-brac. It's even harder to make a case for its historical significance, when...nothing happened there.

I'm not saying it isn't worth keeping; I'm just saying that if the building doesn't get put to good use soon, it's doing more harm than good as a "billboard of blight."

**MariusPontmercy** · 10-03-2012, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

Personally, I agree. Hell, it's beautiful! But it's hard to make a case for its architectural significance, when it was finished in the same year as the Monadnock in Chicago and the Wainwright in St. Louis. Compared to those two, it's a piece of Victorian bric-a-brac. It's even harder to make a case for its historical significance, when...nothing happened there.

I'm not saying it isn't worth keeping; I'm just saying that if the building doesn't get put to good use soon, it's doing more harm than good as a "billboard of blight."

It had some civil rights era significance.

**AbortedWalrus** · 10-03-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

You're not making any sense. I said that it would be better to seal it for decades until the right time came than to demolish it and lose it forever. You keep coming back with non sequiturs.

How long has the Spring Garden passenger train station been derelict? It's still there, long forgotten. How about the Girard passenger train station? It's gone, forever. Which one has a chance of being restored? How about the Naval Home versus the Sears building? Demolishing historic buildings rather than tolerating an eyesore evidences silly vanity and short-sightedness. I was just checking out the Stetson factory, which was designed by a prolific Germantown architect. What moron decided to demolish that amazing complex in 1979? Had it been saved it'd be a very valuable landmark. What is it now? Crap. Economists call that destruction of wealth.

For every example you can come up with I can come up with one I'd rather have demolished and rebuilt, personally.

Not necessarily. Prices have been all over the place these last few years - labor is down, metals are up, cost of money is down, price of natural gas is down, price of fuel oil is up. Who know where prices will be in a year or three? If the unions come to their senses construction costs may drop dramatically in Philly. Technological change too (new materials or labor-saving ways of doing things) could decrease costs. Pex is way cheaper than copper, for instance, both in materials and labor, although I don't believe that pex is allowed in commercial buildings, yet.

There's the flip side though, which is what I was getting at. The longer it sits the more structurally unsound it gets. Fires, a leaky roof, crumbling cement, etc. There are also insurance and other costs that letting it sit will incur. I would imagine much of that is going to offset the off chance that union labor costs go down.

**eldondre** · 10-03-2012, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

Personally, I agree. Hell, it's beautiful! But it's hard to make a case for its architectural significance, when it was finished in the same year as the Monadnock in Chicago and the Wainwright in St. Louis. Compared to those two, it's a piece of Victorian bric-a-brac. It's even harder to make a case for its historical significance, when...nothing happened there.

I'm not saying it isn't worth keeping; I'm just saying that if the building doesn't get put to good use soon, it's doing more harm than good as a "billboard of blight."

its the city's first highrise, its the first integrated hotel, its fascinated generations...it get short shrift because its in philly not because its brick a brac In fact bljmenfeld seems fascinated with the detail even in its dilapidated state. Willis Hale is the most underrated home grown around

**RainboTeabagger** · 10-04-2012, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by eldondre

i.it get short shrift because its in philly not because its brick a brac

What the hell does that mean?

**RainboTeabagger** · 10-04-2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

Personally, I agree. Hell, it's beautiful! But it's hard to make a case for its architectural significance, when it was finished in the same year as the Monadnock in Chicago and the Wainwright in St. Louis. Compared to those two, it's a piece of Victorian bric-a-brac.

First off both those buildings are in those cities downtown.

I haven't seen the Wainwright in person. The Monadnock is only a big deal because of the light brick curve at the top and near bottom of structure. Big whoop.

**eldondre** · 10-04-2012, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by RainboTeabagger

What the hell does that mean?

people think its not important cuz it's in north philly

**billy ross** · 10-04-2012, 07:32 AM

The Lorraine is one of the last, if not the last, of the countless old high-rises that used to line North Broad. It helps us imagine. What the street used to look like before the blight removers erased everything.

**lemko** · 10-04-2012, 08:25 AM

It was a damn shame they demolished the Sears Building to put up yet another shopping center. The details on that building were amazing. If you looked near the top, there was glazed blue brick interspersed in the masonry. When Sears closed, that whole neighborhood collapsed around it.

**lemko** · 10-04-2012, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by billy ross

The Lorraine is one of the last, if not the last, of the countless old high-rises that used to line North Broad. It helps us imagine. What the street used to look like before the blight removers erased everything.

Wonder what will become of the Beury Building?

**raider.adam** · 10-04-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by billy ross

The Lorraine is one of the last, if not the last, of the countless old high-rises that used to line North Broad. It helps us imagine. What the street used to look like before the blight removers erased everything.

And sadly created even more blight.

**MarketStEl** · 10-04-2012, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by billy ross

The Lorraine is one of the last, if not the last, of the countless old high-rises that used to line North Broad. It helps us imagine. What the street used to look like before the blight removers erased everything.

High-rises, Billy?

Try row houses and mansions instead.

The reason Oscar Hammerstein built the Met Opera House at Broad and Poplar in 1908 was because at the time, that area had become a fashionable residential district for the city's new money. Where now a KFC and a Checkers sit at the northwest corner of Broad and Girard, the mansion of traction magnate Peter A.B. Widener once stood; the house was still standing, its stone retaining wall incorporating the subway station entrance, when I moved here.

You can also see in the block between the Met and Girard Avenue at least one building that testifies to the street's history as the city's early Automobile Row.

Most of the taller structures were found south of Green Street, as they are now.

**MarketStEl** · 10-04-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by RainboTeabagger

First off both those buildings are in those cities downtown.

I haven't seen the Wainwright in person. The Monadnock is only a big deal because of the light brick curve at the top and near bottom of structure. Big whoop.

Besides its unadorned facades that prefigure Modernism, the Monadnock Block is significant as a parting shot: it was the last tall masonry building (as opposed to monument) built in the country. That "curve near the bottom" is much bigger than the one at the top, because the street floor's walls are quite massive - they support the weight of the building above it.

The Wainwright Building is Louis Sullivan's first significant tall office building.

**thoth** · 10-04-2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by lemko

Wonder what will become of the Beury Building?

Hey, if they actually develop the DL, what do you think the new white elephant will be?

**Dolemite** · 10-04-2012, 12:30 PM

Does this mean the merged school concept is dead?

**lemko** · 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

High-rises, Billy?

Try row houses and mansions instead.

The reason Oscar Hammerstein built the Met Opera House at Broad and Poplar in 1908 was because at the time, that area had become a fashionable residential district for the city's new money. Where now a KFC and a Checkers sit at the northwest corner of Broad and Girard, the mansion of traction magnate Peter A.B. Widener once stood; the house was still standing, its stone retaining wall incorporating the subway station entrance, when I moved here.

You can also see in the block between the Met and Girard Avenue at least one building that testifies to the street's history as the city's early Automobile Row.

Most of the taller structures were found south of Green Street, as they are now.

How is it the once most-fashionable area of the city became so derelict and dilapidated? What was it that drew the rich and powerful away from North Broad? Did some other area become fashionable and draw them away? One can still tell there were magnificent houses in this area though they are now, alas, in ruins.