The Divine Lorraine

[OffenseTaken]

Gutted and cleaned out is alot different then running new electric, plumbing, heating, elevator, remodel etc. You can run just the bare minimum in terms of building emergency support systems (think of a parking deck on top of a building). That way if there is a fire, you have a detector & sprinker and fire fighting equipment. But you wouldnt have to worry about hiding a sprinker system. The pipe and head can be out in the open. Im sure there is a cost. The real prohibitive cost is the fact you have these little 200 sf rooms. Even studio apt

Why wouldnt insurers do that? Insurance is for the building it self. Yes there would be a cost associated with those floors but since there is nothing valueable on those floors, you are just insuring the structure not any property or build out on the inside. Insurers will write you a policy for anything.

The existing Granary. It was used as an office the 1st floor and condo on the top floor. The space in between was empty.

My idea is a temporary one since one one is going to expand in that area until the eyesore is gone. Developers will continue to build out the rest of francisville and callowhill before that touch that area.

Sure, floors that basically function as stilts wouldn't be quite as costly as bona fide floors, but the question remains: why would you make a risky investment and then forbid returns on roughly 80% of that investment? This would also take care of the "eyesore" problem, since it would be making actual use out of actual floors, not just literal window-dressing.

It's my understanding that the tiny rooms are mostly formed by walls that were put in when the International Peace Mission opened the hotel (where there had once been spacious luxury flats), and so these could be taken out without incident.

[the mule]

That actually might be the most realistically profitable solution suggested. Secure the vacant floors, but don't use them. Then in time as the neighborhood gets better it might prove profitable to convert the upper floors into usable space.

That was actually one of the more realistic proposals that was the last one to die last year. The shell of the building was to be restored, the bottom 6 floors renovated and rented as senior housing, and upper floors mothballed for future development. It would have provided the financing to secure the building from further deterioration and would have limited the risk for the developer. After the major work was done and when the market was ready for it, the upper floors could be finished. Keep in mind "senior" in this context is 55 and up, so it's not necessarily a bunch of old people pushing around oxygen tanks and IV stands.

There seems to be a consensus forming that the building is never going to be residential again; the current owners put the kibosh on that when the last real estate boom came and went and all they managed to accomplish was un-securing the entrances (and the gutting that you mentioned already).

I don't know what consensus you've heard... the only viable proposals so far have been residential. The museum and columbarium proposals are fantasy. It's going to take subsidies, tax breaks, and whatever other incentives the city can give the eventual developer, but it's going to be residential, I can promise that.

[esp1977]

Not happening. However, I have it on good authority that there is a well-funded organization that already has a stake in the area pursuing the redevelopment of this building, and everyone is going to hate it. It will be a blot on the renaissance of North Broad and must be stopped. So I'll put up $10,000 to fund a market rate apartment conversion. All I need is 6,000 other people to match my contribution and we should be in business.

Mule - no hints as to what the proposal might be (other than something residential)? All low income, transfer of prison population (kidding, I think?)...

[OffenseTaken]

Let me clarify: if there is a consensus forming, it's that residential use and every other use is becoming extremely unlikely. Even Alan Greenberger, whose job is to sound optimistic about these kinds of things, seems to think that redevelopment will be almost prohibitively fraught with problems.

I really don't think that Jason Lempieri's proposal, although improbable (and fatuous in some of its particulars), is nearly as harebrained an idea as the kinetic art space: it would at least have a dependable revenue stream. That not only suggests that it would stay occupied for the long run, but also that the city would not have to shower them with millions.

What I like about even the dumbest proposals for the building so far is a concern with finding a function for the building that befits its outsize status; a landmark of the Divine Lorraine's beauty and prominence will have to serve as more than just a crappy ten-floor apartment building on North Broad if we are truly to preserve it. I don't see how a building full of rentals, inhabited by tenants poached from nearby, less-subsidized properties, would be good for anyone besides the Willis G. Hale Fan Club.

[DCnPhilly]

(By the way, have you ever been inside the Adelphia House? It's one of the most Lynchian buildings in Philadelphia. All you need is Dennis Hopper and it's the Deep River Apartments. It inhabited and the DLH deserted have roughly the same creep factor.)

Are you thinking of the Spruce Parker? I looked at a few apartments in the Adelphia House and it looked like any generic big city apartment building.

[b_fairmount]

I think the main problem is government getting in the way. Any developer is looking for free money and the fact there are plenty of pols on record stating they are looking to support it (for the almighty photo-op), nothing will get done. If government just got out of the way and said no free rides, secure the building and pay your taxes or we will take it and sell it at sheriff sale. That would do a lot to push a project along. But this is Philadelphia, we don't take property tax deadbeats to sheriff sale.

[ArcticSplash]

Are you thinking of the Spruce Parker? I looked at a few apartments in the Adelphia House and it looked like any generic big city apartment building.

It's called the Parker-Spruce, actually... it is the final thing left of what was once the 13th St red light district. It's the only SRO hotel in Center City I think--at least of that size.

I've been all over Adelphia House, I used to live across from it. I think it used to be an SRO back in the 80s. There was also a huge hedonistic gay bar (public sex) down on the ground floor in the back. I followed the building super to the mechanical floor on the top of the building where there used to be a laundromat, there was still a bulletin board there with a bunch of self-help stuff, much of it faded, dating to the 80s. Leaflets for drug clinics and where to get treatment for AIDS. That led me to think it was a Parker-Spruce style set up there at one point.


The Parker-Spruce was a magnet for the underclass that even when I was living on 13th, PPD would routinely park a unit near the building and run a rotation with the Parker Spruce on one leg of the trip. It was always on the roll call. That's probably still the case now. Cops were always on 13th all the time on every bar night (Thu/Fri/Sat) that safety in WSW is pretty good. When Old City started to get shootings more often, not that many in WSW. The year I moved out there was a rash of shootings near me though.

[the mule]

The Parker-Spruce was a magnet for the underclass that even when I was living on 13th, PPD would routinely park a unit near the building and run a rotation with the Parker Spruce on one leg of the trip. It was always on the roll call. That's probably still the case now. Cops were always on 13th all the time on every bar night (Thu/Fri/Sat) that safety in WSW is pretty good. When Old City started to get shootings more often, not that many in WSW. The year I moved out there was a rash of shootings near me though.

The Parker is such an embarrassment for this city, but just one of many of course. It's in the middle of a high value neighborhood and is missing freaking windows. Where the windows do exist many are ancient wood single pane windows that are about to fall apart. There have got to be countless code violations inside but it's somehow still in operation. Hopefully with the new building planned next door someone will be motivated to buy the Parker and turns it around, because the city and L&I certainly aren't having any effect.

[DCnPhilly]

The Parker is such an embarrassment for this city, but just one of many of course. It's in the middle of a high value neighborhood and is missing freaking windows. Where the windows do exist many are ancient wood single pane windows that are about to fall apart. There have got to be countless code violations inside but it's somehow still in operation. Hopefully with the new building planned next door someone will be motivated to buy the Parker and turns it around, because the city and L&I certainly aren't having any effect.

PW ran a really interesting article about the Parker a few years ago that gave some surprising insight. I'm sure there are some Parker threads on here so I don't want to go into too much detail, but I honestly don't think the building is as much of a shock to visitors as it is to those of us who have been made aware of it. If you don't look up you wouldn't really notice it, and the Westbury anchors it and is a pretty nice bar. The windows are just old and uncleaned. I wouldn't be surprised if it's up to code, just not up to the new standards of a changing neighborhood. Most cities have a building like this. Actually most have several. Portland, OR has a whole strip of them, also in their Gayborhood. I'm not sure the addition of subsidized senior housing will do much to change the Parker. I think a lot of the horror stories are carried over from the days Arctic Splash is talking about, when there wasn't just the Parker, but also the Adelphia House and undoubtedly others. As it is today I've never had a problem with it. It's ugly, but they have security, and because it's technically a hotel they can easily evict deadbeats.

[Jayfar]

I've been all over Adelphia House, I used to live across from it. I think it used to be an SRO back in the 80s. There was also a huge hedonistic gay bar (public sex) down on the ground floor in the back. I followed the building super to the mechanical floor on the top of the building where there used to be a laundromat, there was still a bulletin board there with a bunch of self-help stuff, much of it faded, dating to the 80s. Leaflets for drug clinics and where to get treatment for AIDS. That led me to think it was a Parker-Spruce style set up there at one point.

Project Home ran a program there involving some of the units until Philadelphia Management bought the building and evicted them (or at least tried to; I don't know what the final outcome was):

Project Home Is Suing Over Evictions Sister Mary Scullion Says The New Owners Of Adelphia House Wanted Her Clients Out. - Philly.com

EDIT:

PMC settled with Project Home.

http://www.projecthome.org/news/pdf/DPApril06.pdf

[OffenseTaken]

PW ran a really interesting article about the Parker a few years ago that gave some surprising insight. I'm sure there are some Parker threads on here so I don't want to go into too much detail, but I honestly don't think the building is as much of a shock to visitors as it is to those of us who have been made aware of it. If you don't look up you wouldn't really notice it, and the Westbury anchors it and is a pretty nice bar. The windows are just old and uncleaned. I wouldn't be surprised if it's up to code, just not up to the new standards of a changing neighborhood. Most cities have a building like this. Actually most have several. Portland, OR has a whole strip of them, also in their Gayborhood. I'm not sure the addition of subsidized senior housing will do much to change the Parker. I think a lot of the horror stories are carried over from the days Arctic Splash is talking about, when there wasn't just the Parker, but also the Adelphia House and undoubtedly others. As it is today I've never had a problem with it. It's ugly, but they have security, and because it's technically a hotel they can easily evict deadbeats.

If we're talking about the same one, that article in the PW was powerful. (Re-reading it now, I noticed that a PhillyBlog poster named Jayfar was quoted therein; the same Jayfar who graces these pages, perhaps?) Anyone who reads it can never be so dismissive of people who live in seedy, extended-stay hotels as just vermin or something.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that the Adelphia was dilapidated, which it certainly isn't. There are some really spooky elements if you poke around, and a lot of spooky residents. (That's why it's Lynchian: that stuff is just under the surface.)

[Jayfar]

If we're talking about the same one, that article in the PW was powerful. (Re-reading it now, I noticed that a PhillyBlog poster named Jayfar was quoted therein; the same Jayfar who graces these pages, perhaps?) Anyone who reads it can never be so dismissive of people who live in seedy, extended-stay hotels as just vermin or something.

Hehe, yes indeedy, the Parker was my home, sweet home in an earlier life:

In Living Color - philadelphia weekly online

At PhillyBlog.com a series of posts denigrate the place, but then a writer with the screen name Jayfar volunteers a fuller picture. “As one of the former, long-term ‘vagrant’ residents of the Parker (about five years total in two stretches during the ’80s), I’m wondering how someone paying $115 to $156 per week is considered a vagrant,” he writes. “Or perhaps you mean people with low incomes. This vagrant was working a full-time job while living there.”

[the mule]

The windows are just old and uncleaned. I wouldn't be surprised if it's up to code, just not up to the new standards of a changing neighborhood. Most cities have a building like this. Actually most have several. Portland, OR has a whole strip of them, also in their Gayborhood. I'm not sure the addition of subsidized senior housing will do much to change the Parker. I think a lot of the horror stories are carried over from the days Arctic Splash is talking about, when there wasn't just the Parker, but also the Adelphia House and undoubtedly others. As it is today I've never had a problem with it. It's ugly, but they have security, and because it's technically a hotel they can easily evict deadbeats.

I can post pictures of windows missing window panes, sashes falling in, or boarded up openings if you'd like, particularly on the North and East sides of the building.

The senior housing will be an improvement over the RDA parking lot and maintenance garage currently next door and will potentially add some commercial space to 13th st. Being that it will be an LGBT friendly building in the Gayborhood and "senior" in this case is 55 and up, you can bet that it's going to be occupied by quite a different crowd than the stereotypical senior development. Obviously that all depends on how the building turns out, but it's a high profile project that's going to have to get approval from Wash West, which has a number of architects on its board who will undoubtedly have some demanding input on the design.

I don't live in that neighborhood but I have heard plenty of recent horror stories about activities related to the hotel from people who do live and work there, so I can only go by that and the sad sack appearance of the place.

[DCnPhilly]

Yeah, it's ugly, but I'd take any rumors about the Parker with a grain of salt. Philadelphians love to spin tales, and somehow every time you hear one of these stories, the narrator seemed to be "right there when it happened." The Adelphia House is more than a decade removed from its colorful past and locals still gasp when you say you've been inside. The fact that the Parker is still a flop house gives passerbys a lot more room to speculate. People hate it but they love to talk about it. The only recent incident I can think of was a jumper about five years ago, but the same thing happened at the Loew's Hotel around the same time.

[eldondre]

new tax credit devised by the state could trigger a boom in rehabilitation of historic buildings in Pennsylvania, experts said...The historic tax credit can cover as much as 25 percent of a project’s cost and accompanies an existing 20 percent federal historic tax credit. In the first year, the state program allows $3 million in tax credit certificates to be issued, with a $500,000 limit for a single applicant....With use only of the federal tax credit program, a $5 million development would cost $4.1 million with $900,000 (tax credit) available for purchase” by an investor, said developer Ralph Falbo of Ralph Falbo Inc., Downtown.

“But add the 25 percent tax credit now available in Pennsylvania, and the cost of that development now is about $3.5 million,” he said

State tax credit may spur boom in refurbishing of historic sites | TribLIVE

[the mule]

State tax credit may spur boom in refurbishing of historic sites | TribLIVE

Well any money is helpful, but $500,000 to the Divine Lorraine is a drop in the bucket. OHCD already offered $3.8 million last year which was a tiny contribution. That project is going to need all that money, federal historical tax credits, probably some RACP money, and a developer with a healthy appetite for risk.

[DCnPhilly]

Well any money is helpful, but $500,000 to the Divine Lorraine is a drop in the bucket. OHCD already offered $3.8 million last year which was a tiny contribution. That project is going to need all that money, federal historical tax credits, probably some RACP money, and a developer with a healthy appetite for risk.

The real shame is that would have been plenty of money to make the building operational before it was gutted and left to rot. Ifs and Buts I guess. Oh well.

[Titus]

The real shame is that would have been plenty of money to make the building operational before it was gutted and left to rot. Ifs and Buts I guess. Oh well.

Just shows what a little greed will do...

[eldondre]

Well any money is helpful, but $500,000 to the Divine Lorraine is a drop in the bucket. OHCD already offered $3.8 million last year which was a tiny contribution. That project is going to need all that money, federal historical tax credits, probably some RACP money, and a developer with a healthy appetite for risk.

600 N Broad received $18 million in various tax credits, I'd expect a similar deal would be needed here. there are really two problems, one is the cost of restoring it, the other is that the bank was undoubtedly bailed out and can afford to sit on a massively overvalued mortgage without being forced to take a loss and move the property.

[the mule]

The real shame is that would have been plenty of money to make the building operational before it was gutted and left to rot. Ifs and Buts I guess. Oh well.

This is absolutely true. It was an operating hotel until the late 90s until the IPM sold it. It needed work, sure, but it had architectural treasures galore inside, none of which are left.

600 N Broad received $18 million in various tax credits, I'd expect a similar deal would be needed here. there are really two problems, one is the cost of restoring it, the other is that the bank was undoubtedly bailed out and can afford to sit on a massively overvalued mortgage without being forced to take a loss and move the property.

The bank holding the mortgage is going to take a loss no matter what. The building is just not worth the outstanding loan value. But you're absolutely right, that project won't happen until there is significant tax credits and RACP money available for it (which will take some time to put together) and other sources of funding. The City is willing to throw money at it, now it's just up to the state to come up with the big bucks. Considering some of the other projects that Corbett has surprisingly signed off on for RACP grants, this one should be a no-brainer.