So I guess the talks of someone buying the divine Lorraine have died down?

**John Goodman** · 08-06-2012, 08:58 AM

Oy vey

At this point I'd be fine with the city dropping $$$ to fix it up themselves. The city holds the liens right? Or does a bank control it?

We already waste plenty of money on unworthy causes... Might as well drop some bills to save an architectural treasure... Our grandkids will thank us...

**raider.adam** · 08-06-2012, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Oy vey

At this point I'd be fine with the city dropping $$$ to fix it up themselves. The city holds the liens right? Or does a bank control it?

We already waste plenty of money on unworthy causes... Might as well drop some bills to save an architectural treasure... Our grandkids will thank us...

Someone was taking talks of buying it seriously? And it is privately owned. And the City isn't going to fix it up themselves unless they are using it.

**John Goodman** · 08-06-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Someone was taking talks of buying it seriously? And it is privately owned. And the City isn't going to fix it up themselves unless they are using it.

I thought nutter said he had a buyer like 6 months ago...

And id rather the city pay to fix it up then pay to knock it down... They can raise my taxes if it means we get to keep this building!

**raider.adam** · 08-06-2012, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

I thought nutter said he had a buyer like 6 months ago...

No one should take any of that talk seriously until there is something serious to be taken.

And id rather the city pay to fix it up then pay to knock it down... They can raise my taxes if it means we get to keep this building!

I'd rather the City force the owners to seal it so it doesn't need to be knocked down.

**John Goodman** · 08-06-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

No one should take any of that talk seriously until there is something serious to be taken.

I'd rather the City force the owners to seal it so it doesn't need to be knocked down.

do you know if the owners have been foreclosed on yet?

**Moonraker** · 08-06-2012, 09:49 AM

All this sounds like someone trying to over leverage their investment and not take on a reasonable real estate risk.
Anyone who has owned and operated a business takes on risk. The tolerance of that risk and the resulting return on investment make the difference.
Look around the 1400 block of anything near there. CC is moving up Broad Street and Temple is moving down. Even SEPTA is improving the Fairmount Station.

**raider.adam** · 08-06-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

do you know if the owners have been foreclosed on yet?

Pretty sure they haven't, nor has the City gone after liens I believe.

**bruhinb** · 08-06-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Look around the 1400 block of anything near there. CC is moving up Broad Street and Temple is moving down. Even SEPTA is improving the Fairmount Station.

This.

At this point there's no way to ignore the reality that SOMETHING will be happening with that property sometime soon. Exactly what that is is another question entirely. Sadly, I would view salvation as somewhat less likely than demolition, unless a very special buyer with a serious vision comes along.

Panorama 1129 by bruhinb, on Flickr

**radiocolin** · 08-06-2012, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Oy vey

We already waste plenty of money on unworthy causes... Might as well drop some bills to save an architectural treasure... Our grandkids will thank us...

Originally Posted by John Goodman

I thought nutter said he had a buyer like 6 months ago...

And id rather the city pay to fix it up then pay to knock it down... They can raise my taxes if it means we get to keep this building!

The sad fact is that this building is already so far beyond repair that any repairs will essentially be creating a new building, shaped like the old one.

**notherrealname** · 08-06-2012, 02:24 PM

The owner, Lorraine Hotel LP owes just under $1M in back taxes on the building. It's eligible for Sheriffs sale. There's so much fascinating history there, I would love to see it preserved as a sustained ruin, like Eastern State. The lower floors would make an amazing museum for civil rights and religious movements in Philadelphia. I can't be the first one to think this, though.

**bruhinb** · 08-06-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by notherrealname

The owner, Lorraine Hotel LP owes just under $1M in back taxes on the building. It's eligible for Sheriffs sale. There's so much fascinating history there, I would love to see it preserved as a sustained ruin, like Eastern State. The lower floors would make an amazing museum for civil rights and religious movements in Philadelphia. I can't be the first one to think this, though.

That's an excellent idea! I wonder if there's a way to structure a grant that has the African American Historical Museum taking it over as their new headquarters. There's a project that could salvage the building AND enhance the neighborhood.

**OffenseTaken** · 08-06-2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by notherrealname

The owner, Lorraine Hotel LP owes just under $1M in back taxes on the building. It's eligible for Sheriffs sale. There's so much fascinating history there, I would love to see it preserved as a sustained ruin, like Eastern State. The lower floors would make an amazing museum for civil rights and religious movements in Philadelphia. I can't be the first one to think this, though.

I love the acerbic wit of your idea, but I don't think equating "civil rights and religious movements in Philadelphia" with "sustained ruin" would fly over too well in this town.

**notherrealname** · 08-06-2012, 03:18 PM

The last time I was in the building (2007), the lower floors were still fairly grand, but the higher floors had been gutted. There were still plenty of artifacts left over from the Peace Mission. It was fascinating and bizarre to consider the major accomplishments of the mission with regard to racial integration, and also it's weirder moments, like its ties to Jim Jones. I'm sure there are others who would want to experience this. Though, you're right- it would have to be thought-out and done well.

**raider.adam** · 08-06-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by bruhinb

That's an excellent idea! I wonder if there's a way to structure a grant that has the African American Historical Museum taking it over as their new headquarters. There's a project that could salvage the building AND enhance the neighborhood.

Which leads to the question... why would they want to relocate out of Center City up and away to an area where no tourists go?

And this all leads to the issue of that we're talking about using tax payer money to bailout the owners of the property when the reality seems to be that it should just be forced to auction because of unpaid back taxes and accumulating liens.

**the mule** · 08-06-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Which leads to the question... why would they want to relocate out of Center City up and away to an area where no tourists go?

And this all leads to the issue of that we're talking about using tax payer money to bailout the owners of the property when the reality seems to be that it should just be forced to auction because of unpaid back taxes and accumulating liens.

The last public news was that Amalgamated Bank was shopping the note on the property and the buyer would have to foreclose on the current owners. Tax dollars are going to undoubtedly be used on the Divine Lorraine, whether it's to redevelop it or to demolish it, but in either case the current owners deserve to walk away with nothing. The city is avoiding sending it to auction because they want to ensure it goes to someone who's actually going to develop it, so for the time being it will just languish.

It's sad to say, but short of major RACP money being directed toward the building (which doesn't happen overnight), it's probably going to be demolished. There's nothing left from the once beautiful inside, so the only thing worth preserving is the shell. Pennrose wasn't able to make the deal work with tax credits, which is essentially free money, so what's the likelihood someone else rolls in with private financing to save it?

**OffenseTaken** · 08-06-2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by the mule

The last public news was that Amalgamated Bank was shopping the note on the property and the buyer would have to foreclose on the current owners. Tax dollars are going to undoubtedly be used on the Divine Lorraine, whether it's to redevelop it or to demolish it, but in either case the current owners deserve to walk away with nothing. The city is avoiding sending it to auction because they want to ensure it goes to someone who's actually going to develop it, so for the time being it will just languish.

It's sad to say, but short of major RACP money being directed toward the building (which doesn't happen overnight), it's probably going to be demolished. There's nothing left from the once beautiful inside, so the only thing worth preserving is the shell. Pennrose wasn't able to make the deal work with tax credits, which is essentially free money, so what's the likelihood someone else rolls in with private financing to save it?

Sometimes it almost seems like Father Divine's messianic spirit still haunts the place; it's almost worshipful the way that so many people await its Second Coming.

This talk just gets sillier all the time. It's time to pull this old specter of a building down and cart the rotting remains away, with our illusions.

**raider.adam** · 08-06-2012, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by the mule

The last public news was that Amalgamated Bank was shopping the note on the property and the buyer would have to foreclose on the current owners. Tax dollars are going to undoubtedly be used on the Divine Lorraine, whether it's to redevelop it or to demolish it, but in either case the current owners deserve to walk away with nothing. The city is avoiding sending it to auction because they want to ensure it goes to someone who's actually going to develop it, so for the time being it will just languish.

It's sad to say, but short of major RACP money being directed toward the building (which doesn't happen overnight), it's probably going to be demolished. There's nothing left from the once beautiful inside, so the only thing worth preserving is the shell. Pennrose wasn't able to make the deal work with tax credits, which is essentially free money, so what's the likelihood someone else rolls in with private financing to save it?

I disagree. The Divine Lorraine's fate is likely tied to being packaged with the vacant land around it. Of course you are likely right about tax money. Nothing can get built (or does get built) in Philly without tax money being handed out.

As for making sure someone buys it that has plans... that is the whole point of being diligent on property tax collections. The whole thing is a mess and City Hall has as much blood on their hands as anyone else.

**jazzsinger59** · 08-07-2012, 03:55 PM

Or on this board lol..These folks seem to want everything
gentrified.

**John Goodman** · 08-07-2012, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by jazzsinger59

Or on this board lol..These folks seem to want everything
gentrified.

Correct

The more gentrification the better... You should get used to it

How long do you plan on complaining about gentrification?

It's the natural order of things and will be continuing for another 40 years, get over it

**the mule** · 08-07-2012, 05:06 PM

Not only do I want to see more gentrification, I'll go one step further: I'd like to see poverty eliminated entirely.

I'd also like to see educational curricula improved so that people one day will stop seeing economic development as a bad thing.