So I guess the talks of someone buying the divine Lorraine have died down?

**raider.adam** · 08-10-2012, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

I figured that if that plan did happen it would be such a big deal that it would get extra money thrown at it. I mean, a Vetri cafeteria? It'd be big news, plus they wanted to put Masterman and such in there which is already a great school, so the Masterman folks would make demands saying the other schools needed to either be brought up to their level so as not to bring them down, or they would try to back out of the plan, etc. There's nothing about the plan itself, per se, just my personal speculation about what would have happened around the plan.

But it's moot now!

They aren't allowed to fund schools at different levels though, right? The kids have to be funded rather equally. Annie I need you to chime in here.

Also, if sticking a bunch of poor inner city kids into the same building as magnet kids was enough to bring up their test scores significantly, we would have solved the education crisis a long time ago.

The other thing to keep in mind is, all the housing surrounding the vacant lot behind DL is all subsidized suburban style housing. Dropping a school on the vacant lot actually kills a lot of the likely location new middle class residents would move into that area.

**OffenseTaken** · 08-10-2012, 01:19 PM

...

**AbortedWalrus** · 08-10-2012, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

They aren't allowed to fund schools at different levels though, right? The kids have to be funded rather equally. Annie I need you to chime in here.

Also, if sticking a bunch of poor inner city kids into the same building as magnet kids was enough to bring up their test scores significantly, we would have solved the education crisis a long time ago.

The other thing to keep in mind is, all the housing surrounding the vacant lot behind DL is all subsidized suburban style housing. Dropping a school on the vacant lot actually kills a lot of the likely location new middle class residents would move into that area.

Ah, didn't realize that about the funding. Although I would think that donations could be made and such directly to the schools, but I honestly don't know a ton about it. Like I said it was just speculation, but I would have imagined that with a brand new complex like the one proposed somehow they would have tried to make it a landmark type of school.

The Richard Allen garbage around there really does hold everything back in general. But there is a lot of vacant land in that area, and I haven't really actually heard of a ton of crime in the Richard Allen area, but I don't know a lot about it, so maybe it won't have as bad an impact as one would suspect.

**raider.adam** · 08-10-2012, 03:12 PM

[QUOTE=AbortedWalrus;521537]Ah, didn't realize that about the funding. Although I would think that donations could be made and such directly to the schools, but I honestly don't know a ton about it. Like I said it was just speculation, but I would have imagined that with a brand new complex like the one proposed somehow they would have tried to make it a landmark type of school.

The Richard Allen garbage around there really does hold everything back in general. But there is a lot of vacant land in that area, and I haven't really actually heard of a ton of crime in the Richard Allen area, but I don't know a lot about it, so maybe it won't have as bad an impact as one would suspect.

Not really.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=19130...nia+19130&z=17

That's the DL and the lot behind it in the middle (if I linked it right). There isn't much for vacant land in that radius. Or to clarify, there aren't big blocks of vacant land, but a bunch of infill. The DL lot and the one just south of it is really the prime stuff.

And you can also see how much wasted density there is with the subsidized homes to the north east. That is an example of why we have an under utilized subway. Philadelphia actually builds in a way to lose ridership. Right next to a subway stop they build spaced out homes designed for car use.

**eldondre** · 08-10-2012, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by carloss

He's trying to buy it BACK, which raises the question of why he even sold it off to deadbeat investors to begin with if he was so serious about restoring it.

The current owners include local builder Michael Treacy Jr.; a Dutch company, Sunergy Housing; and Michigan-based NSI Real Estate Group. In 2006, they bought the hotel and 3.7 vacant acres for $10.1 million...He acquired the hotel and adjacent land for $5.8 million in 2003 and sold it three years later to the current owners for nearly twice the price.

Phila. developer aiming to buy blighted landmark Divine Lorraine
It's fairly simple, he made an assload of money. interestingly, tony goldman bought it from father divine's estate and flipped it to blumenfeld. in a lot of ways, it's been held hostage to the boom and bust, being flipped twice with no improvements, treacy then vastly overpaying for it, then having it rot while the bank didn't want to eat the loss.

Originally Posted by carloss

Housing is still a non-starter because of the location.

this is nonsense. it's a two blocks north of 640 N Broad, a block north of PCA. it sits at the nexus of three rapidly redeveloping neighborhoods. blumenfeld owns the former men's shelter that will soon be home to Starr catering. the location is no longer a liability.

**annie** · 08-10-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

They aren't allowed to fund schools at different levels though, right? The kids have to be funded rather equally. Annie I need you to chime in here.

If one is a big nerd, one can check out individual school budgets here: https://apps.philasd.org/SchoolBudgets

There is a school funding formula supposedly based on enrollment. I don't pretend to understand it. I've seen per-pupil breakdowns that suggest that high-volume high-performing schools like Central get much less funding on the per-pupil basis than average and small schools such as Audenreid spend much more than average per-pupil. There's also the strangeness where a principal "buys" a teacher out of the school discretionary budget it costs the budget the same whether it's a first year teacher or a master with decades of experience. There's probably some logic in that (right? somewhere?) but this is something parents at low-income low-performing schools with high teacher turnover, meaning probably a lot of first years and TFAs, get upset about because the "extra" money doesn't stay with their school.

It is possible to donate money directly to a particular school. However, over a certain amount ($3,999?) it has to be accepted by an SRC resolution and since they vote only once a month the timing can be tricky.

**AbortedWalrus** · 08-10-2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Not really.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=19130...nia+19130&z=17

That's the DL and the lot behind it in the middle (if I linked it right). There isn't much for vacant land in that radius. Or to clarify, there aren't big blocks of vacant land, but a bunch of infill. The DL lot and the one just south of it is really the prime stuff.

And you can also see how much wasted density there is with the subsidized homes to the north east. That is an example of why we have an under utilized subway. Philadelphia actually builds in a way to lose ridership. Right next to a subway stop they build spaced out homes designed for car use.

Yeah, I realize what the land layout is like, I live a block and a half away from the DL basically. I drive up Ridge Ave to get home every day. From around 13th Street all the way up Ridge Ave to broad is basically vacant land or blighted buildings, with one or two things in between. Both sides of Ridge Ave in that section are pretty much vacant of any significant buildings that don't need to be torn down or completely rehabbed, and there's not many of those. Basically from Mt. Vernon to Fairmount is all empty or filled with surface lots.

The unfortunate thing is that it doesn't go east further. 13th and Fairmount has sligtly less wasteful/more dense project housing than the suburban style development though, and at that point the urban feel isn't totally ruined. But really there is a full block separating the weird suburban portion of the Richard Allen Homes from any development that would happen around the DL. The biggest concern then would be crime rates.

**raider.adam** · 08-10-2012, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

Yeah, I realize what the land layout is like, I live a block and a half away from the DL basically. I drive up Ridge Ave to get home every day. From around 13th Street all the way up Ridge Ave to broad is basically vacant land or blighted buildings, with one or two things in between. Both sides of Ridge Ave in that section are pretty much vacant of any significant buildings that don't need to be torn down or completely rehabbed, and there's not many of those. Basically from Mt. Vernon to Fairmount is all empty or filled with surface lots.

The unfortunate thing is that it doesn't go east further. 13th and Fairmount has sligtly less wasteful/more dense project housing than the suburban style development though, and at that point the urban feel isn't totally ruined. But really there is a full block separating the weird suburban portion of the Richard Allen Homes from any development that would happen around the DL. The biggest concern then would be crime rates.

Right, I was focusing on the immediate radius around the subway stop.

**AbortedWalrus** · 08-10-2012, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Right, I was focusing on the immediate radius around the subway stop.

Ahh, yes, there's really not much directly on Broad, that is true.

**the mule** · 08-11-2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by BarryG

Seems like City Hall is ready to cut a deal -- like forgive most of the back taxes.

Even if they make a deal with the current owners (unlikely) and don't send it to sheriff's sale, it was a foregone conclusion that the taxes would be forgiven. The taxes are a miniscule part of the equation, only about a million dollars. The cost of the renovation will probably be over $40 million. Ultimately what will get this done is a big infusion of tax dollars in the form of at least state and federal historic tax credits and OHCD funds.

**Jayfar** · 08-26-2012, 10:39 AM

The view is Divine

**John Goodman** · 08-26-2012, 11:05 AM

Blumenfeld is a hero!

**darthsinatra** · 08-26-2012, 11:12 AM

Can't wait to see what he does and how it transforms north broad.

**Titus** · 08-26-2012, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Blumenfeld is a hero!

If he does this he will be my hero!

**mixiboi** · 08-26-2012, 02:49 PM

I didn't know he was a rockstar...Look at his album cover

**thoth** · 08-26-2012, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Blumenfeld is a hero!

I'd wait to see if he actually does anything before I broke out the champagne. This is his second go round with this project, and he needs to assemble 44mil to do it. Good luck to him, everyone wants this project to happen. Then people can move on to bitching about the Beury Bldg and the Croydon. Progress!

Also, did anyone else notice in the article that Blumenfeld said he finished off the Botany 500 conversion before moving back to the DL project? When the hell did he start or finish this project? Is he lying or something? I thought that project was all speculative and never got off the ground, but I haven't been to Broad and Lehigh in a while. Did I seriously miss the redevelopment of this immense, highly visible building?

**The Count** · 08-26-2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Blumenfeld is a hero!

Everybody said the same about Treacy 5 years ago, (and Blumenfeld himself for that matter 7 years ago).

You're not a real developer until you've actually developed something - "coffee's for closers".

**billy ross** · 08-26-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

I'd wait to see if he actually does anything before I broke out the champagne. This is his second go round with this project, and he needs to assemble 44mil to do it. Good luck to him, everyone wants this project to happen. Then people can move on to bitching about the Beury Bldg and the Croydon. Progress!

Also, did anyone else notice in the article that Blumenfeld said he finished off the Botany 500 conversion before moving back to the DL project? When the hell did he start or finish this project? Is he lying or something? I thought that project was all speculative and never got off the ground, but I haven't been to Broad and Lehigh in a while. Did I seriously miss the redevelopment of this immense, highly visible building?

Evidently there are two Botany 500 buildings. I too thought of the one on the NW corner of Broad and Lehigh, but according to the article one of the ones on N. Broad (600? 660?) is the Botany 500 building. Don't know enough to gainsay.

Originally Posted by The Count

Everybody said the same about Treacy 5 years ago, (and Blumenfeld himself for that matter 7 years ago).

You're not a real developer until you've actually developed something - "coffee's for closers".

He seems to have done quite a bit on N. Broad already. He stands to gain alot from turning the Lorraine into someplace, just in the gain in value of his other buildings.

**mixiboi** · 08-26-2012, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

Evidently there are two Botany 500 buildings. I too thought of the one on the NW corner of Broad and Lehigh, but according to the article one of the ones on N. Broad (600? 660?) is the Botany 500 building. Don't know enough to gainsay.

Yup, there actually three Botany 500 buildings the clothing maker had..this is the one he finished up:

Lofts 640 - homepage

**thoth** · 08-26-2012, 09:01 PM

Ahh, okay. Makes a lot more sense, although I was kind of hoping the big one had secretly been repurposed.

Originally Posted by billy ross

Evidently there are two Botany 500 buildings. I too thought of the one on the NW corner of Broad and Lehigh, but according to the article one of the ones on N. Broad (600? 660?) is the Botany 500 building. Don't know enough to gainsay.

He seems to have done quite a bit on N. Broad already. He stands to gain alot from turning the Lorraine into someplace, just in the gain in value of his other buildings.