AVI is going to SCREW us!

[carloss]

Nutter caused this by not having the assessments ready. In light of the timing, delay is the right thing to do.

3.59 point property tax increase and 0.9 point U&O tax increase, and a promise to institute AVI next year. This isn't such a bad plan given the circumstances.

4.6 to 5.5 is more like a TWENTY PERCENT increase on the U&O tax, not 0.9. Probably less significant than a hike on the BP tax, but I still can't imagine the out-migration of jobs to the 202 corridor is slowing down anytime soon.

[BarryG]

4.6 to 5.5 is more like a TWENTY PERCENT increase on the U&O tax, not 0.9. Probably less significant than a hike on the BP tax, but I still can't imagine the out-migration of jobs to the 202 corridor is slowing down anytime soon.

That's why I said points, not %.

[carloss]

That's why I said points, not %.

True, but you also said "3.59 point property tax increase" when that one is actually 3.59%. Gotta be careful not to mix points and percentages is all.

[ArcticSplash]

When estimated total aggregate property value dropped so much, meaning a higher rate, it underlined how much of a mystery it remains what the final tax bill numbers will be. They couldn't pass it under that uncertainty but from I have read the budget deal will include language that means Council can't back out of AVI next year. So we get a tax hike on assessments that state courts have declared illegal and unfair and they slightly more mildly jack up U&O taxes on businesses anyway.

So Dubow predicted losing $100 million to appeals if they kept the old bad assessments another year. How much was that a scare tactic. I don't see a huge number of appeals from the less than $120k a house crowd because why bother, you taxes are not that high and going down next year anyway. I do see a lot of commercial properties and rental property owners appealing using the old assessments because they would see lower taxes under AVI and merely doing business in Philadelphia requires them to lawyer-up to a certain extent. Also they will be pissed about the U&O hike and looking to make that back somewhere else. Split the difference and say because of appeals collections will come in $40 million short maybe?

Bingo.

It's not like under Nutter's Naked-AVI there wouldn't have been a mass deluge of appeals anyway. I see what they are doing to people whos 10-year is coming off expiration (bilked assessments). The trust in the assessment system was the reason we have to go to AVI to begin with, but the proposed implementation seriously obliterates even the hope that the fair system actually is fair by these revenue targets.

I'm sorry but you cannot squeeze blood from a turnip. Especially if you don't even know if you have a turnip or not.

I drove the point home in Council yesterday: You're doing this to people all the while we are overburdened with property miscreants who are mostly to blame for much of the blight and quality of life issues we got, then on top of that you're asking us to pay for the privilege of having our lives burdened by them and the fact that they're not paying.



It's no reason why people who dont have a nickel are joining hands in City Council with multiple millionaires and developers on the same side of the fence. When you see people pair up like that, you KNOW political suicide is just down the corner. We need AVI, but we don't need Nutters highway robbery version of it.

[seand]

"Highway robbery" attached to Nutter alone is not fair or accurate. Council hiked taxes half of what was going to be baked-in anyway and next year when they do go to AVI those old "temporary" hikes will have already been made permanent i.e. "revenue neutral" next year will be half the hidden hike that what was slatedfor this year. They are "half highway robbers" then?

What was wrong was saying we have to do this huge change when it became obvious how little was known about the final assessments grand total was. A better analogy is Nutter was a pilot committed to a course of direction even though the instruments on the panel were out and we had zero visibility out the window. Council was right to question him when he was saying "I'm 90% sure there isn't a mountain behind that cloud bank".

But we are still going to have to land the plane next year.

[seand]

So how do you politically force progress on reducing deliquency rates, getting stuff sold quicker?

[Jelly Roll]

So how do you politically force progress on reducing deliquency rates, getting stuff sold quicker?

I think that is the key. If you sell the properties quickly you do not have massive back taxes that are higher then the worth of the property. If you have a property that is assessed at market value and property tax is less then 5% even if it takes 2 years to get to a sale the amount owed should still be way lower then the market value.

[ArcticSplash]

So how do you politically force progress on reducing deliquency rates, getting stuff sold quicker?

Adopt Green's bill to speed up Sheriff's Sale (even though the administration won't be hitting that target... Sheriff's office has yet to break past 300 a month this year).

(raider adam will explode)... Pass MQS's land bank bill

Work with PlanPhilly to identify opportunity zones were property squatting runs deep and close to and inside market rate areas, and throw all those owners into Common Pleas court by the bucket fulls. i.e. mass title searches and complaint filings from Revenue, then the Preacipe for Writ of Execution and the Rule to Show Cause notices go out, immediately all those owners will lawyer up or pay the bills and go into payment plans. As you resolve cases, feed in more. Right now there is a capacity problem at the Law Department.


Begin outshopping the Law Department staff handling CE cases for RETU. As in, use local Philadelphia attorneys acting in proxy representing the City of Philadelphia. This can be done on a recovery contingency. It's less money than selling the liens for pennies on the dollar plus property owners DO react when they are threatened with deed-strip. This will start to reverse the trend of non-compliance by the largest property squatters, and then attention can then move into the world of private rental property that's active and in DQ.

[seand]

Adopt Green's bill to speed up Sheriff's Sale (even though the administration won't be hitting that target... Sheriff's office has yet to break past 300 a month this year).

Refresh me on the details of Green's bill. All I found was a philly.com article that it would compell people to get on the payment plan. It sort of seems like the one thing aimed squarely at everyone's biggest complaint and I was shocked at how little coverage its gotten when I did a search.

(raider adam will explode)... Pass MQS's land bank bill

Well some version of a consolidated database and process is needed.

Begin outshopping the Law Department staff handling CE cases for RETU. As in, use local Philadelphia attorneys acting in proxy representing the City of Philadelphia. This can be done on a recovery contingency. It's less money than selling the liens for pennies on the dollar plus property owners DO react when they are threatened with deed-strip. This will start to reverse the trend of non-compliance by the largest property squatters, and then attention can then move into the world of private rental property that's active and in DQ.

Pardon me but to my legally ignorant eyes this looks painfully easy to do. Outsourcing the work to crank up collections is like the easiest move ever and it pays for itself. Why hasn't it been done already?

[raider.adam]

(raider adam will explode)... Pass MQS's land bank bill

There is no guarantee that the bill, as is, will increase sale volumes any noticeable level. If you want to increase sale volumes, you need to remove the political interferences and make things as much Over the Counter as possible.

[#1MetsFan]

So, just curious. Given that this has been postponed by (at least) a year, do we still have to file for the Homestead Exemption by July 31st of this year?

[seand]

So, just curious. Given that this has been postponed by (at least) a year, do we still have to file for the Homestead Exemption by July 31st of this year?

The state won't pass the state law to make it useful if there is no AVI. On the other hand if you turn it in now, assuming they do both AVI and the Homestead Exemption next year maybe you will beat the rush to get your name entered into the system. OR maybe they will have a better registration system by then. In short, won't do any good but who knows?

[raider.adam]

So, just curious. Given that this has been postponed by (at least) a year, do we still have to file for the Homestead Exemption by July 31st of this year?

There is no exemption, so don't worry about it.

The state won't pass the state law to make it useful if there is no AVI. On the other hand if you turn it in now, assuming they do both AVI and the Homestead Exemption next year maybe you will beat the rush to get your name entered into the system. OR maybe they will have a better registration system by then. In short, won't do any good but who knows?

Beat the rush? The rush of putting it in the mailbox? haha

[seand]

Beat the rush? The rush of putting it in the mailbox? haha

The rush of a city agency that has never processed these things before hand processing tens of thousands of manually submitted forms, sometime next year. I.E. council will still argue and postpone cutting a deal till late in budget season next year and you might actually get your data entered manually first. Or maybe they use half a brain and let you enter yourself online by next year. But I wouldn't count on it.

It won't do a thing for you this year.

[Big Irish]

According to Philly.com City Council has decided to hold off on AVI til next year. The vote will come soon.

Now we'll see if Dubow's dire predictions of plague, famine & pestilence if AVI was not implemented this year actually come true. We'll see if Ramos & the SRC's threat to not open the schools unless they got their $94 mil actually happens. We'll also see if their claims of not being able to borrow more than $218 mil were true or just gamesmanship, because my intuition tells me the PSD is not going to try and live with a smaller budget. Instead they'll borrow whatever shortfall there is between what they wanted and what they actually got.

I'm quoting myself to point out that PSD actually borrowed $300 mil for this coming school year, link to Philly.com story.

They said they could only borrow $218 mil. Yet even after City Council gave them an extra $40 mil they went and borrowed another $300 mil. You can't make this stuff up.

I'm sure next year we'll hear yet again the doom and gloom, the supe will have some super duper new initiative, and the usual cast of characters will be in front of the cameras claiming it's all about the children.

[EJW]

Now they are estimating a rate of 1.3% - 1.4%... still unreasonable and excessive given the quality of city services and the tax increases that were supposed to be temporary.

Property reassessment figures bolster Nutter's position on AVI

[seand]

Now they are estimating a rate of 1.3% - 1.4%... still unreasonable and excessive given the quality of city services and the tax increases that were supposed to be temporary.

Property reassessment figures bolster Nutter's position on AVI

Is it also unreasonable for the folks who are already paying a much higher actual rate based on the old assessments to continue to overpay? Just curious.

Me personally, I'd still probably do better with lower wage taxes than lower property taxes and at 1.3% property taxes alone are not awful compared to the burbs. But they will probably stick on a bunch of programs and exceptions that jack it up to 1.4% or 1.5%.

[raider.adam]

Is it also unreasonable for the folks who are already paying a much higher actual rate based on the old assessments to continue to overpay? Just curious.

Me personally, I'd still probably do better with lower wage taxes than lower property taxes and at 1.3% property taxes alone are not awful compared to the burbs. But they will probably stick on a bunch of programs and exceptions that jack it up to 1.4% or 1.5%.

The $30K homestead exemption will cut my assessment at least in half (assuming they assess it correctly) which means at 1.3% my tax bill pretty much stays the same. A lot of homes in my neighborhood a $30K exemption will probably eliminate most of their assessed values.

[EJW]

Is it also unreasonable for the folks who are already paying a much higher actual rate based on the old assessments to continue to overpay? Just curious.

AVI is not unreasonable, the new tax rate they are setting in conjunction with AVI is though - especially considering the wage tax I already pay.

[ArcticSplash]

I would reckon anyone who owns a house in Nicetown won't be paying a cent.

Not like they are now. #Tax_delinquents