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  1. #1
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Default Museum Towers Parking lto to get developed finally?

    I've always wondered when this desirable parcel would get developed. it's bordered by the museum towers, 19th, and 20th streets with baldwin park on the south. the big question I suppose is will there be any retail facing the park? seems like the perfect place to have park fronting restaurants, etc.
    Coming Soon: Museum Towers, Part Deux | NakedPhilly
    Last edited by eldondre; 01-20-2012 at 08:40 AM.
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  2. #2
    BenDee is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldondre View Post
    I'ave always wondered when this desirable parcel would get developed. it's bordered by the museum towers, 19th, and 20th streets with baldwin park on the south. the big question I suppose is will there be any retail facing the park? seems like the perfect place to have park fronting restaurants, etc.
    Coming Soon: Museum Towers, Part Deux | NakedPhilly
    I'm happy to hear there is a project for the space, and hope it doesn't take years to get off the ground. A restaurant would be nice, although it probably depends on Fairmount Park cooperation, agreement from the near neighbors on 19th, and a little green space from Museum Towers (basically a connecting path from the park to a path running just above the northern boundary).

  3. #3
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenDee View Post
    I'm happy to hear there is a project for the space, and hope it doesn't take years to get off the ground. A restaurant would be nice, although it probably depends on Fairmount Park cooperation, agreement from the near neighbors on 19th, and a little green space from Museum Towers (basically a connecting path from the park to a path running just above the northern boundary).
    it's probably the most important aspect of the project since there's little hope for any type of complementary development on any other side of the park. I'd venture to say a couple of retail spaces should be in order. yeah, I'm sure everyone will have more than their fair say in the project and trying to minimize its benefits to the city and area
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  4. #4
    LUCas is offline Senior Member
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    What about the shadows?
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  5. #5
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUCas View Post
    What about the shadows?
    Yeah I can't wait for the NIMBYs to be all over this one like they were the Granary. In all honesty this new tower may block my view of CC a bit, but I'm all for it. I didn't purchase "view rights" when I bought my house.

  6. #6
    qguy is offline Member
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    How did the first towers get past the NIMBYs originally? It almost completely hides that gorgeous church at 18th & Spring Garden and casts it in shadow for much of the day. The church soars, but it looks almost toylike in comparison, from some angles.

  7. #7
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    The phase-two construction plan includes a 270-unit, 16-story tower and 16 townhomes. The townhomes will surround a planned 4-story, 400-space parking garage, in an attempt to shield it from pedestrian view.

    Upon completion, Museum Towers—a project of Forest City Enterprises, designed by architect Sandy Silverman of Perkins Eastman—will include 586 residential units and 400 off-street parking spaces.

    The property sits directly north of Matthias Baldwin Park
    PlanPhilly | Forest City developers seeking approvals for Museum Towers expansion

    would be nice if they opted for a four story apartment building around the garage with some street level commercial facing the park but it's still pretty nice.
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  8. #8
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldondre View Post
    PlanPhilly | Forest City developers seeking approvals for Museum Towers expansion

    would be nice if they opted for a four story apartment building around the garage with some street level commercial facing the park but it's still pretty nice.
    Fully agree, although I do give them kudos for hiding the garage.

    Two opposing thoughts I have on street-level commercial there:

    1. That area has not done well with commercial (the Feders Fresh space as well as the one next to it I think are still vacant).
    2. They could COMPLETELY transform that neighborhood if they put in nice park-facing restaurants on the ground floor and turn it into a something like a poor man's version of Rittenhouse

    My guess is that they feel there isn't enough density right now. Or they could just be minimizing their investment outlay. Hard to tell.

    Part of the issue I would also guess is that since CCP owns the whole eastern side, that space can't be developed to increase density. And students probably aren't ever going to be core customers unless one of the retail spaces is a coffeehouse (is the closest one Starbucks on 20th?). And the western side is low-density as well.

    Having a City Branch stop right there would make this a no-brainer...but that's a chicken-and-egg thing...

  9. #9
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    As part of an agreement in which a utility easement on the property is being vacated for the new construction, the developers have also agreed to make improvements to the adjacent park/art piece, including replacing the benches and updating the lighting
    Anyone have more info on this part of the article? Please please please tell me they are going to rip out the ridiculous "art piece" and make this a functioning park.

  10. #10
    witout is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    Anyone have more info on this part of the article? Please please please tell me they are going to rip out the ridiculous "art piece" and make this a functioning park.
    3…2….1.. obligatory dog park conversation starts….. now

  11. #11
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    AbortedWalrus is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    Fully agree, although I do give them kudos for hiding the garage.

    Two opposing thoughts I have on street-level commercial there:

    1. That area has not done well with commercial (the Feders Fresh space as well as the one next to it I think are still vacant).
    2. They could COMPLETELY transform that neighborhood if they put in nice park-facing restaurants on the ground floor and turn it into a something like a poor man's version of Rittenhouse

    My guess is that they feel there isn't enough density right now. Or they could just be minimizing their investment outlay. Hard to tell.

    Part of the issue I would also guess is that since CCP owns the whole eastern side, that space can't be developed to increase density. And students probably aren't ever going to be core customers unless one of the retail spaces is a coffeehouse (is the closest one Starbucks on 20th?). And the western side is low-density as well.

    Having a City Branch stop right there would make this a no-brainer...but that's a chicken-and-egg thing...
    I dunno, you go another block south of the park to Callowhill and business is booming. Feder's failed because it couldn't compete with Whole Foods, not because commercial can't do well in that area. On that same block at Callowhill there is Sabrina's, Doma, Kite & Key, King of Tandoor, Rose Tattoo Cafe, and a beer distributor. The next block over has Starbucks, Pizzeria Vetri, Petco, and that new japanese place. I think that area is doing pretty damn well for itself in the ability to sustain commercial. No reason they couldn't put restaurants on the park.

    The only part that hasn't done well is the Feder's space.

  12. #12
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witout View Post
    3…2….1.. obligatory dog park conversation starts….. now
    The Spring Garden Civic is trying to put one in beside the church at 19th and Green just south of Clemente Park. Assuming that actually happens, it should solve that need and we don't have to keep bringing it up.

    Generally speaking, if the public complains enough, it will happen. Just look at what happened after all the bitching and moaning about not having a good Mexican place in Fairmount...

  13. #13
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus View Post
    I dunno, you go another block south of the park to Callowhill and business is booming. Feder's failed because it couldn't compete with Whole Foods, not because commercial can't do well in that area. On that same block at Callowhill there is Sabrina's, Doma, Kite & Key, King of Tandoor, Rose Tattoo Cafe, and a beer distributor. The next block over has Starbucks, Pizzeria Vetri, Petco, and that new japanese place. I think that area is doing pretty damn well for itself in the ability to sustain commercial. No reason they couldn't put restaurants on the park.

    The only part that hasn't done well is the Feder's space.
    You are absolutely right, although I was thinking in terms of just that portion of the block (ignoring the Boutique, Kansai, and C3J's of course).

    Playing devil's advocate -- perhaps the area is overly saturated now with everything on Callowhill between 18th and 20th?

  14. #14
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    what's wrong with a poor man's rittenhouse? every time I pass the tivoli I think of how silly it is to waste all that space on a lobby. that area is increasingly dense and gets visitors as well (barnes, logan square museums, etc). if anything it was ridiculously underserved for a long time. vetri pizzaria is insanely packed. I don't think there's a pressing need for retail on 19th st but park facing retail is too unusual in this town and the park could certainly use the help
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  15. #15
    Tartan69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldondre View Post
    what's wrong with a poor man's rittenhouse?
    Nothing at all...I'd be all for it!

  16. #16
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartan69 View Post
    Nothing at all...I'd be all for it!
    fwiw i saw le pain quotidien is going in next to pizzaria verri. id guess theyre fetching pretty high rents
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  17. #17
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldondre View Post
    fwiw i saw le pain quotidien is going in next to pizzaria verri. id guess theyre fetching pretty high rents
    le pain quotidien is open
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