Philadelphia Orchestra seeks bankruptcy reorganization

[Gladys]

Philadelphia Orchestra seeks bankruptcy reorganization | Philadelphia Inquirer | 04/16/2011

Could this week get any worse? I hope not.

[BarryG]

In theory the reorg will help the organization in the long run. But I am concerned about musician moral. I still have two more concerts this season so we'll see.

Phil Orch may be pioneer in a trend of orchestras declaring bankruptcy and they may emerge stronger--or the reign of one of the best orchestras in the world could be ending.

I don't know how to feel about this yet.

[Gladys]

In theory the reorg will help the organization in the long run. But I am concerned about musician moral. I still have two more concerts this season so we'll see.

Phil Orch may be pioneer in a trend of orchestras declaring bankruptcy and they may emerge stronger--or the reign of one of the best orchestras in the world could be ending.

I don't know how to feel about this yet.

no he's not he's being honest. my livelihood id tied to how many performances i am hired to give with PO. Morale is a big deal as people will leave. Being "wishy washy" as you put it is just not knowing how it's going to pan out. the whole thing folding is not out of the realm of possibility, neither is it being better than ever. The huge amount of mismanagement over the last 20yrs has been devastating for the group. the artists, both instrumental, vocal or conductorial pay the price.

[Braveheart]

no he's not he's being honest. my livelihood id tied to how many performances i am hired to give with PO. Morale is a big deal as people will leave. Being "wishy washy" as you put it is just not knowing how it's going to pan out. the whole thing folding is not out of the realm of possibility, neither is it being better than ever. The huge amount of mismanagement over the last 20yrs has been devastating for the group. the artists, both instrumental, vocal or conductorial pay the price.

Do you remember the former chairman Peter Benoliel? I had the pleasure of making his aquaintance through a Quaker
Chemical supervisor retiree and we did extensive work on his home.

Although Peter's family founded Quaker Chemical, known as one of the best local employers, he still had time for a stint
as Philly Orchestra chairman, along with a run as Philly Federal Reserve chair.

He's retired now and you couldn't meet a nicer guy.

Don't forget the name Philly ~ Peter Benoliel

[phillyaggie]

There had been a management and art direction vacuum for several years. Practically the whole of the past decade (the 2000s) seem to have been a nightmare for the orchestra in all sorts of ways, with the hiring of Eschenbach that didn't jive well, the new Verizon Hall getting a cold reception from long time season ticket holders as well as musicians (for bad acoustics), the lack of management and direction, no major tours or recordings, etc etc.

It seems the management (the new CEO coming from Atlanta) and the board have decided to eschew top caliber talent by cutting labor costs, especially the defined benefit (rather than defined contribution) legacy retirement costs. The endowment is still there, but unless the orchestra can figure out innovative ways to raise its revenue, it is a slowly sinking ship at current rates. Many other orchestras around the country have already gone about doing things like having "mini seasons" in multiple cities rather than based in just one city. And doing things like youtube internet broadcasts. Philly Orch instead seems to be staid in one sense even while pissing off old timer ticket holders by playing music the foggies don't care for, in a venue that the foggies feel is "cold" and not "intimate" enough.

None of these things are unfixable. The young new music director (YNS) hopefully gets the music making energized and does the gladhanding and other stuff to keep the big oldies happy while also bringing in new subscriptions. The rest really depends on the management to be innovative and come up with new ways to engaging the community... have a proper and full season (and affordable) concerts at the Mann, play more popular classics, try and engage soundtrack opportunities, etc.

And what a shame that the Verizon Hall still suffers from acoustics issues. Second tier orchestras like the one in Dallas have better homes, it seems.

[Braveheart]

I've heard about the acoustical issues at Verizon Hall.

I have a further concern as regards safety, lets say we took the R6 and had to walk a ways.

A 45cal. in my pocket in center city could make it work.

[devilspocket]

I've heard about the acoustical issues at Verizon Hall.

I have a further concern as regards safety, lets say we took the R6 and had to walk a ways.

A 45cal. in my pocket in center city could make it work.

If you're worried about walking down Broad Street to hear the orchestra, perhaps you shouldn't come to Center City. You don't sound like a city person.

(I've lived in Philadelphia for 40 years and have not yet been mugged.)

[Hospitalitygirl]

I've heard about the acoustical issues at Verizon Hall.

I have a further concern as regards safety, lets say we took the R6 and had to walk a ways.

A 45cal. in my pocket in center city could make it work.

Really??? Dude, sac up.

[Bob_Head]

The young new music director (YNS) hopefully gets the music making energized and does the gladhanding and other stuff to keep the big oldies happy while also bringing in new subscriptions. The rest really depends on the management to be innovative and come up with new ways to engaging the community... have a proper and full season (and affordable) concerts at the Mann, play more popular classics, try and engage soundtrack opportunities, etc.

And what a shame that the Verizon Hall still suffers from acoustics issues. Second tier orchestras like the one in Dallas have better homes, it seems.

The Orchestra needs to figure out if its rich tradition is more burden than gift. It seems somewhere along the line they got so worried about preserving their reptuation as a great ohchestra they forgot they earned it by being an orchestra that made great music. So much about what they do has a perfunctory feel to it. Looking at the upcoming season, I see little that even the perspective of a new Music Director makes me want to see. I find myself more excited by the offerings of Orchestra 2001 than the Orchestra.

And, yes, Verizon Hall is a dreadful experience. Beyond the lackluster sound, it has all the aesthetic appeal of the King of Prussia Mall. It's another part of the reason I hardly go to the Orchestra anymore.

[BarryG]

There had been a management and art direction vacuum for several years. Practically the whole of the past decade (the 2000s) seem to have been a nightmare for the orchestra in all sorts of ways, with the hiring of Eschenbach that didn't jive well, the new Verizon Hall getting a cold reception from long time season ticket holders as well as musicians (for bad acoustics), the lack of management and direction, no major tours or recordings, etc etc.

It seems the management (the new CEO coming from Atlanta) and the board have decided to eschew top caliber talent by cutting labor costs, especially the defined benefit (rather than defined contribution) legacy retirement costs. The endowment is still there, but unless the orchestra can figure out innovative ways to raise its revenue, it is a slowly sinking ship at current rates. Many other orchestras around the country have already gone about doing things like having "mini seasons" in multiple cities rather than based in just one city. And doing things like youtube internet broadcasts. Philly Orch instead seems to be staid in one sense even while pissing off old timer ticket holders by playing music the foggies don't care for, in a venue that the foggies feel is "cold" and not "intimate" enough.

None of these things are unfixable. The young new music director (YNS) hopefully gets the music making energized and does the gladhanding and other stuff to keep the big oldies happy while also bringing in new subscriptions. The rest really depends on the management to be innovative and come up with new ways to engaging the community... have a proper and full season (and affordable) concerts at the Mann, play more popular classics, try and engage soundtrack opportunities, etc.

And what a shame that the Verizon Hall still suffers from acoustics issues. Second tier orchestras like the one in Dallas have better homes, it seems.

The sound in Verizon Hall is superb. Apparently they "fixed" it at some point; I did not attend any shows prior to this so I don't know what it was like, but it sounds fantastic now. The Academy has charm but having been back to it recently, I very much prefer Verizon Hall. Then again, I am considerably younger than the typical concert goer.

At least part of the orchestra's folly over the past 10 years or so has been simultaneously trying to push forward, find new revenue streams, and appeal to a younger generation while appeasing the old, longtime supporters. I don't know enough to suggest how they could have done better, but they managed to not succeed wildly at either.

The Philadelphia Orchestra is actually among the first American orchestras to sell streaming concerts online. They may be the first, I'm not sure, but the Metropolitan Opera has been doing it for a few years. Among symphonies a few Euro ones where there first. I don't know how successful it is, but the crazy part is that they had purchased equipment and hired staff to do this, and then management pulled the plug on the whole thing before they even gave it a shot. Luckily, a third party thought it was worth a go and bought up everything and is actually producing the streams. But that really speaks to what was going on with the management there. From what I hear, the leadership is not so blatantly stupid any longer.

There is plenty of wealth in the city to support the orchestra. It's really sad; going to the orchestra is not particularly expensive. We have a lot of people in this city willing to blow comparable amounts of money, or in some cases much more, on Phillies games, Eagles games, and expensive dinners. But they wouldn't set foot into the concert hall. A friend of mine in his sixties told me that 50 years ago, you could buy a ticket to see the Eagles at the window on the day of the game, but the orchestra would sell out months in advance. Now, it's the opposite. And an Eagles game will cost you at least twice as much as a concert at face value, more like 3-4x the price if buying aftermarket.

I have hope for the future but the great orchestras of the world pay their musicians top dollar. Given the financial difficulties that nearly all (maybe all?) American orchestras are facing things will restructure a bit and Philly will still be a destination for top talent. We'll see.

[Bob_Head]

Really??? Dude, sac up.

I love you.

[supersupper]

Interesting discussion.

A friend of mine in his sixties told me that 50 years ago, you could buy a ticket to see the Eagles at the window on the day of the game, but the orchestra would sell out months in advance. Now, it's the opposite. And an Eagles game will cost you at least twice as much as a concert at face value, more like 3-4x the price if buying aftermarket.

When I was an art student years ago in another city, the "cool art kids" (so to speak) listened to classical music, and sports of any sort was of no interest whatsoever- it wasn't even on our radar. I went to concerts often (tickets were practically free for students).

Today i find many serious and rather prominent (and mostly progressive/avante garde types) area artists and art critics cheering and bragging about the phillies, etc. yet I rarely, if ever, hear a peep about the orchestra.

I don't know if this also holds true for art students of today, but i find it a strange preference among those i follow.

[BarryG]

Interesting discussion.



When I was an art student years ago in another city, the "cool art kids" (so to speak) listened to classical music, and sports of any sort was of no interest whatsoever- it wasn't even on our radar. I went to concerts often (tickets were practically free for students).

Today i find many serious and rather prominent (and mostly progressive/avante garde types) area artists and art critics cheering and bragging about the phillies, etc. yet I rarely, if ever, hear a peep about the orchestra.

I don't know if this also holds true for art students of today, but i find it a strange preference among those i follow.

If you read the blog Philebrity I think that pretty much sums up this mentality. Lots about (boring to me) indie rock music and the Port Fishington art scene, but the editor (Joey Sweeney) also loves the Phillies (and hates the Eagles--which also seems common among pretentious artsy types but let's not go there now). Now there has been I think exactly one peep about the orchestra on his blog, in fact it was a nice piece about how the city needs to support the orchestra more and the audience of Philebrity is in many ways the future of the city's culture consumers. But I will take a guess, and let me make it clear that I am speculating here, that Joey Sweeney has attended very few orchestra performances since he wrote that post, and possibly zero. I say this because I suspect he would mention it on his blog if he did, at least in passing. Maybe I'm wrong and perhaps we'll find out when he covers this story on Monday.

The orchestra already lost a big chunk of the baby boomer generation. The boomers will pay $150 to see the Rolling Stones and the Who rehash their hits but by and large they do not attend the orchestra, ballet, or opera. The orchestra, in Phila and all across America, needs to reach the younger generation. My hope is that like many things it is cyclical and that when the current generation of 20- and 30-somethings hit their forties and fifties going to the orchestra will be an "in" thing to do. It's just a bit crazy that people in this town will fall over themselves to spend $40pp+ at the newest Jose Garces restaurant but going to the orchestra is barely on the radar. I mean there are a lot of shows at the Electric Factory that cost more than half-decent orchestra tickets.

BTW I am not a music snob, I like rock music more than classical really, I just don't care for the majority of the indie rock that gets press on Philebs.

[Hospitalitygirl]

If you read the blog Philebrity I think that pretty much sums up this mentality. Lots about (boring to me) indie rock music and the Port Fishington art scene, but the editor (Joey Sweeney) also loves the Phillies (and hates the Eagles--which also seems common among pretentious artsy types but let's not go there now). Now there has been I think exactly one peep about the orchestra on his blog, in fact it was a nice piece about how the city needs to support the orchestra more and the audience of Philebrity is in many ways the future of the city's culture consumers. But I will take a guess, and let me make it clear that I am speculating here, that Joey Sweeney has attended very few orchestra performances since he wrote that post, and possibly zero. I say this because I suspect he would brag about it on his blog if he did. Maybe I'm wrong and perhaps we'll find out when he covers this story on Monday.

The orchestra already lost a big chunk of the baby boomer generation. The boomers will pay $150 to see the Rolling Stones and the Who rehash their hits but by and large they do not attend the orchestra, ballet, or opera. The orchestra, in Phila and all across America, needs to reach the younger generation. My hope is that like many things it is cyclical and that when the current generation of 20- and 30-somethings hit their forties and fifties going to the orchestra will be an "in" thing to do. It's just a bit crazy that people in this town will fall over themselves to spend $40pp+ at the newest Jose Garces restaurant but going to the orchestra is barely on the radar. I mean there are a lot of shows at the Electric Factory that cost more than half-decent orchestra tickets.

BTW I am not a music snob, I like rock music more than classical really, I just don't care for the majority of the indie rock that gets press on Philebs.

Subscriber to the Opera (face it, it gets too expensive unless you've got some pretty deep pockets, to do both), and I do see younger students at the opera, presumably using the last minute options for the seats in Family Circle, but the orchestra may have just a stodgier image to overcome.

[BarryG]

Subscriber to the Opera (face it, it gets too expensive unless you've got some pretty deep pockets, to do both), and I do see younger students at the opera, presumably using the last minute options for the seats in Family Circle, but the orchestra may have just a stodgier image to overcome.

I see a handful of student types at the orchestra, but it seems pretty clear to me that they are music students. Maybe I'm wrong but there are always empty seats. The 25-50 year old demographic is just not there.

[phillyaggie]

The Orchestra needs to figure out if its rich tradition is more burden than gift. It seems somewhere along the line they got so worried about preserving their reptuation as a great ohchestra they forgot they earned it by being an orchestra that made great music. So much about what they do has a perfunctory feel to it. Looking at the upcoming season, I see little that even the perspective of a new Music Director makes me want to see. I find myself more excited by the offerings of Orchestra 2001 than the Orchestra.

And, yes, Verizon Hall is a dreadful experience. Beyond the lackluster sound, it has all the aesthetic appeal of the King of Prussia Mall. It's another part of the reason I hardly go to the Orchestra anymore.

I looked at the current season's offerings last year and haven't looked at the future ones on offer. I recall it being a PITA to go on the orchestra's web site and finding relevant information. The season ticket package options also weren't clearly explained. The whole thing felt like it was geared toward those who were also the in-crowd. I could have called someone and gotten more info but I guess I'm in that 20s-30s age group that isn't well represented in the orchestra's audiences so I can see why I felt excluded and didn't feel like spending the time and money just yet. Perhaps I will in the following years. YNS isn't supposed to take over full time until after next season, IIRC... somehow, I'm looking fwd to that and hoping that'll make things exciting.

[Hospitalitygirl]

Do you really think an honorably discharged 3rd Marines sergeant/shellback would walk around downtown at night
with his wife unarmed, after all the stories I've seen here?

The story if I was attacked would be more like "attackers dead or with fractured noggins"

If you're such a tough ex-Marine you should have no problems going mano-a-mano with some mysterious attacker.

[Braveheart]

If you're such a tough ex-Marine you should have no problems going mano-a-mano with some mysterious attacker.

That may be true HG, however you have no standing to comment either way.

Do you or your husband have close ties to the US military?

[phillyaggie]

You make no sense and belong at Pennhurst with Head-job Bob.

okay then...

[Bob_Head]

Do you really think an honorably discharged 3rd Marines sergeant/shellback would walk around downtown at night
with his wife unarmed, after all the stories I've seen here?

Why not? I do. Hundreds of thousands of people do every week, and have no problem. The only thing you're a victim of is your own fear.