Desolate's Approved Use of First Block of North Broad

**eldondre** · 07-04-2009, 01:17 PM

I walked by here last week and encountered two lost, and visibly nervous tourists who asked, "is there anything open here? are there any places with restaurants?) I'm standing near the wall the blocks the Municipal Services Plaza from North Broad St. I look around and count 15 homeless folks hanging about in the shadows. In the concourse itself, where a homeless man was recently shot, I'd wake people up on my way to work, and occasionally disturb homeless couples having sex. Tw blocks south of here is the Avenue of the ARts on South Broad St. This is what desolate thinks is just fine. i think the MSB plaza should be redeveloped with a building that fronts Broad St, eliminating the stupid game piece plaza and the depressed (in every sense of the term) concourse.

From a call box in the below-ground concourse of the Municipal Services Building, he kept calling - and hanging up.

Calling - and hanging up.

After the 40th time, a police officer was dispatched at 8:25 to see what was going on....Once he was outside and near a bench where he often slept, the man pulled out a utility knife.

Evers said the knife was the type used to cut drywall or carpet. "The officer tells him over 50 times to drop the knife," Evers said.

Police said he lunged at the officers. They fired, hitting the man in the torso.

Police kill homeless man in Center City concourse | Philadelphia Inquirer | 07/04/2009

The indoor part of the concourse serves as a makeshift toilet and homeless shelter. It connects directly to the green lines and BSL via a tunnel under JFK which is never open, and given the barron, stench filled corridor, people may be hesitant to use it anyway. There is no connection to the heavily used bus stp upstairs except one hidden stairwell that might as well have been designed by muggers.

**raider.adam** · 07-04-2009, 05:18 PM

I always thought that plaza would be a natural location for variety of things (much better spot for a farmer's market). They could even lease out an outdoor restaurant/cafe there and have the tables amongst the game pieces.

I do think that plaza is a bunch of wasted space.

**eldondre** · 07-05-2009, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

I always thought that plaza would be a natural location for variety of things (much better spot for a farmer's market). They could even lease out an outdoor restaurant/cafe there and have the tables amongst the game pieces.

I do think that plaza is a bunch of wasted space.

or a highrise building. It's two blocks from the terminal and across from the city hall farmers market. you'd have to be on crack to run a restaurant there.

**marbugkid** · 07-09-2009, 08:50 AM

...not to mention, a McDonalds right across the street.

Hey, it's Philly...to some, that is fine dining.

**thunda** · 07-10-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by eldondre

or a highrise building

Doesn't the Broad Street Line run underneath part of Reyburn Plaza? If so, was it built to support a structure above? Sandy?

**eldondre** · 07-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by thunda

Doesn't the Broad Street Line run underneath part of Reyburn Plaza? If so, was it built to support a structure above? Sandy?

I think it follows Broad St 9or where Broad St used to be on the west side of city Hall. Certainly nothing that can't be designed around with a smaller portion of the building fronting JFK and the large portion on the Arch St side, not unlike the MSB itself. I think the plaza results from the same logic that led to depressed areas in dilworth...oasis in the city. Oasis indeed, for the bums.

**thunda** · 07-10-2009, 04:02 PM

Here's a diagram of the concourse that I assume is spatially accurate. It has the BSL concourse turning diagonally north-north-west at Penn Square South (underneath Dilworth Plaza). At JFK, it's about halfway between Broad and 15th, so would have to swing north-east fairly sharply and not rejoin Broad Street until slightly north of Arch. That would mean that almost all of Reyburn Plaza is above tracks.

http://media.philly.com/images/concourse.gif

**eldondre** · 07-10-2009, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by thunda

Here's a diagram of the concourse that I assume is spatially accurate. It has the BSL concourse turning diagonally north-north-west at Penn Square South (underneath Dilworth Plaza). At JFK, it's about halfway between Broad and 15th, so would have to swing north-east fairly sharply and not rejoin Broad Street until slightly north of Arch. That would mean that almost all of Reyburn Plaza is above tracks.

http://media.philly.com/images/concourse.gif

I can't tell if they're accurate or not. the subway makes a fairly sharp turn southbound to city hall. the stop appears to be directly under Dilworth plaza. I'll try to keep in mind where the el is relative to the subway as a gauge of where the stop is located. One woudl think that the initial turn off the subway would be much less sharp were it to diverge at Arch st. I'd love to get my hands on a real map of the city hall tunnels.

**thunda** · 07-10-2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by eldondre

I'd love to get my hands on a real map of the city hall tunnels.

There are some scale maps in the concourses themselves. I can think of one in that nasty passage that connects the South Broad Concourse to the 15th St fare area.

**eldondre** · 07-10-2009, 05:36 PM

I just checked it out. So hard to keep your bearings down here. It appears that the station ends roughly where jfk starts and turns sharply immediately after leaving the station. The only visible grate from streetlevel is on the north side of jfk. That said, I can't say as I notice any rumbling when standing on the sunken plaza. Maybe if could get in the northern concourse I could tell

**mixiboi** · 07-12-2009, 12:19 AM

Once the Convention Center new entrance is finish, that section won't be around soon after...

**nostradamamamos** · 07-13-2009, 03:20 PM

Only in Philly would they convert a world-reknowned (no joke) skate area at Love park into a homeless-only hangout, while they still have at least that much space empty around the MSB. Why they heck can't they put some grass and benches around the MSB, and let Love park be a skate park with spectator seating? Maybe it's because those prima-donnas in the MSB don't like to look out at skateboarders, and don't want any citizens hanging around near the MSB to see how little work they do?

Seriously, why did the City decide to keep homeless people, so they can keep pooping in the Love park, but scare off a bunch of kids on skateboards using a skate area that has brought philadelphia international attention and revenue (X-games anyone?).

John Street was no skater and it's time to undo his stupid legacy.

**PhillyKev** · 07-13-2009, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by nostradamamamos

John Street was no skater and it's time to undo his stupid legacy.

The legacy is Nutters. He wrote the bill banning skating in public parks while a council member. It was one of the first things he did that gained him any attention.

Have you noticed how beat up Love Park is? The stones chipped off of every corner, the pavers are uneven, craked and broken. Thank the skaters for that.

**eldondre** · 07-13-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by PhillyKev

The legacy is Nutters. He wrote the bill banning skating in public parks while a council member. It was one of the first things he did that gained him any attention.

Have you noticed how beat up Love Park is? The stones chipped off of every corner, the pavers are uneven, craked and broken. Thank the skaters for that.

for years they were the only users of the park. Many of Bacon's ideas were based on misguided principals and, in reality, nobody used them. MSB, LOVE, Dilworth. It was of more value to the city as a skate park...how much money di the X Games bring in? how many peopel came to skate LOVE? Bacon himself came out in support of the skaters

**PhillyKev** · 07-13-2009, 04:00 PM

I've got nothing against skaters. For a short period of time in HS, I was considered a "skate rat" and even skated in Love Park as a kid. I'm just saying, the extensive damage there is due directly to them and once the park started being used and enjoyed by residents and workers in CC, it was time for them to find a new place. Not to mention that their presence kept some people from using it in the first place. Not many people want someone skating inches past them or launching off steps and landing in front of their face while they're trying to walk past or sit and read a book. The failure is that the city didn't create a dedicated skate park in CC in order to give them some place else to go.

**eldondre** · 07-13-2009, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by PhillyKev

I've got nothing against skaters. For a short period of time in HS, I was considered a "skate rat" and even skated in Love Park as a kid. I'm just saying, the extensive damage there is due directly to them and once the park started being used and enjoyed by residents and workers in CC, it was time for them to find a new place. Not to mention that their presence kept some people from using it in the first place. Not many people want someone skating inches past them or launching off steps and landing in front of their face while they're trying to walk past or sit and read a book. The failure is that the city didn't create a dedicated skate park in CC in order to give them some place else to go.

Seems a reasonable suggestion that the city could have picked one of the other two unused plazas for renovation. LOVE park is still empty outside lunch. spent a million dollars on ugly planters, and the city still had to build a skate park (which woudl have cost even more money, and still may not have been as popular)

**RayZ** · 07-13-2009, 04:37 PM

The fact is that skaters cause damage to public and private buildings, plazas, condo buildings, etc.

Why should this type of destructions be allowed/endorced?

I don't think any of us would like our property to be marred by skaters just havin a little "fun"

**eldondre** · 07-13-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by RayZ

The fact is that skaters cause damage to public and private buildings, plazas, condo buildings, etc.

Why should this type of destructions be allowed/endorced?

I don't think any of us would like our property to be marred by skaters just havin a little "fun"

they also brought revenue to the city in the form of the X Games and tourism.

**raider.adam** · 07-13-2009, 05:52 PM

I will say I get a chuckle every time I am at Love Park and I see scruffy teenage skaters standing underneath the love sculpture to have their picture taken.

**gone down south** · 07-14-2009, 08:11 AM

People in Philadelphia often mistake "locally known" for "famous".
LOVE Park is kind of known within a very small demographic, but get 100 miles from here and 99.99% of the population has never heard of it.