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  1. #1
    Gladys's Avatar
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    Default Developers want to turn the Garden of the Arts into the CONDO OF THE ARTS.

    https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_107824435015

    The developers are coming, the developers are coming and they want to turn the Garden of the Arts into the CONDO OF THE ARTS. No joke! After numerous communications and appeals, our City planners and folks at the Commerce department say we need another luxury condo with empty shops where this lush, green oasis currently exists.

    It makes me sick just thinking about it, and a bit angry. The folks in charge are not listening to us at all. We must act now to get their attention.

    Please invite your friends to "friend" our Friends of the Garden of the Arts Facebook page so I can grow this group and grow our awareness for the need to guide the City of Philadelphia toward a smarter development of this green space. Lets do this and see how far we can take it. The future is not yet written!

    Thanks for your time and contribution,

    Laurie Fitzpatrick
    Founder, Executive Director, Board President
    Friends of the Garden of the Arts
    (a 501-C3 corporation)

    Friends of the Garden of the Arts

    (their website will be updated soon.)
    Last edited by Gladys; 05-13-2011 at 12:53 PM.
    "If you're going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise they'll kill you."
    - attributed to both George Bernard Shaw & Oscar Wilde


    "I never clean up after my dogs, because I have trained them to run with me off leash while I ride my bike the wrong way on the sidewalk."
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    Originally Posted by Dave L We need to focus on banning both singers who crap on the sidewalk and dogs that annoy people with their singing. - Mondo

  2. #2
    Gladys's Avatar
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    Mark your calendar: this coming Thursday May 19th petition signing at the Garden of the Arts, 7 PM, NE corner of Broad and South Streets. We neet A LOT of signatures. This event will kick off our perhaps final big push petition drive. Thanks, Laurie Fitzpatrick
    "If you're going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise they'll kill you."
    - attributed to both George Bernard Shaw & Oscar Wilde


    "I never clean up after my dogs, because I have trained them to run with me off leash while I ride my bike the wrong way on the sidewalk."
    - LUCas
    Originally Posted by Dave L We need to focus on banning both singers who crap on the sidewalk and dogs that annoy people with their singing. - Mondo

  3. #3
    gren's Avatar
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    I'm actually not sure why this is bad? It's city owned land not private (right?). It's right next to a subway stop. Why is this a good place for a meh kept garden that's fenced off so only some people can go in? Why shouldn't this have dense development on it? To me it seems pretty exciting and while vacant storefronts might be an issue it seems that having a bunch of new units will give existing and new stores a better customer base.

    Also, if they're calling it Condo of the Arts... salt in the wounds...

  4. #4
    Fishtown Phan is offline Senior Member
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    I've actually always thought that a community garden at a major intersection like that was a serious misuse of land. It should be condos, something that will enhance the streetscape at this major intersection. Within a block I count 6 empty lots that could be converted into a garden.

  5. #5
    Hospitalitygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishtown Phan View Post
    I've actually always thought that a community garden at a major intersection like that was a serious misuse of land. It should be condos, something that will enhance the streetscape at this major intersection. Within a block I count 6 empty lots that could be converted into a garden.
    Watch this happen when some mural will go away because someone finally wants to do something productive with the empty lot that allows you to see the mural in the first place


    This is BROAD & SOUTH! This in NOT the place for a community garden. The reason it became a community garden was to act as a PLACEHOLDER until something finally did get built there. And to keep that lot from becoming a seriously trash-strewn, miserable eyesore of a dump!

    The sidewalk in front of it is a mess. The 'garden' looks like a hot mess more often than I would care to think of.

    Get rid of it and let something useful go there.
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

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    BenDee is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishtown Phan View Post
    I've actually always thought that a community garden at a major intersection like that was a serious misuse of land. It should be condos, something that will enhance the streetscape at this major intersection. Within a block I count 6 empty lots that could be converted into a garden.
    I completely agree. Is there a neighborhood meeting to attend in support of putting a condo there? The May 19th thing just looks like a petition drive, although I might go there with a petition to let them build.

  7. #7
    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl View Post
    Watch this happen when some mural will go away because someone finally wants to do something productive with the empty lot that allows you to see the mural in the first place


    This is BROAD & SOUTH! This in NOT the place for a community garden. The reason it became a community garden was to act as a PLACEHOLDER until something finally did get built there. And to keep that lot from becoming a seriously trash-strewn, miserable eyesore of a dump!

    The sidewalk in front of it is a mess. The 'garden' looks like a hot mess more often than I would care to think of.

    Get rid of it and let something useful go there.
    Amen.

  8. #8
    y.lama is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishtown Phan View Post
    I've actually always thought that a community garden at a major intersection like that was a serious misuse of land. It should be condos, something that will enhance the streetscape at this major intersection. Within a block I count 6 empty lots that could be converted into a garden.
    I agree: Condos/Development > garden/park > unused vacant lot.

    As a S. Broad resident (2 blocks from area in question) I'm hoping for development of all the vacant lots.

  9. #9
    gren's Avatar
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    Gladys, don't want you to feel like people are just piling on but in case the city doesn't listen to you guys you should think about some leverage. You might be able to get the city to loan other land close since they're getting rid of this. You might be able to enter into a community benefits agreement with the developer that could get you some land especially if they're looking for many variances. Obviously not something too expensive but if the time comes you can always figure it out. All of the plots are pretty nice (it's some of the edge shrubs and the fence I don't really like) and you all did a great job keeping it up much better than an abandoned lot. I hope you find some good land to use.

  10. #10
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    This is why neighborhood groups are so dangerous to the future of the city.

    They feel entitled to land they chose to maintain, under the argument that it wasn't currently being used.

    It's squatting. No different than if I chose to park my car on your yard because I see a benefit to me using your land.

    It's not for the greater good that such a high value lot is literally going to pot.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    Gladys, don't want you to feel like people are just piling on but in case the city doesn't listen to you guys you should think about some leverage. You might be able to get the city to loan other land close since they're getting rid of this. You might be able to enter into a community benefits agreement with the developer that could get you some land especially if they're looking for many variances. Obviously not something too expensive but if the time comes you can always figure it out. All of the plots are pretty nice (it's some of the edge shrubs and the fence I don't really like) and you all did a great job keeping it up much better than an abandoned lot. I hope you find some good land to use.
    No. Please no.
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

  12. #12
    Jayfar's Avatar
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    Default Whatever happend to Big Green Building proposal?

    Whatever happened to this?

    Welcome to the Big Green Building :: Cover Story :: Article :: Philadelphia City Paper

    Welcome to the Big Green Building
    If Philadelphia is going to be the country's Next Great City, it needs to start acting like it.
    by Francesca Heintz

    Published: Feb 21, 2007

    If Philadelphia is going to be the country's Next Great City, it needs to start acting like it. For the volunteer-based Urban Green Partnership, this means making Philadelphia the home of the greenest urban building in the world.

    The partnership's Big Green Building, to be completed by 2008, will be located at the intersection of South and Broad streets. The 70,000-square-foot building will be home to retail outlets, residential apartments, office units, a research lab and a community garden.

    [snip]
    I see the Urban Green Partnership http://www.urbangreenpartnership.org website now redirects to the Clean Air Council website, with no mention of the Big Green Building appearing anywhere on that site.
    Last edited by Jayfar; 05-13-2011 at 01:28 PM.
    “Guys like you I would dispatch with my roofing axe.” -- BootsywannabeACretin

  13. #13
    londoner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladys View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_107824435015

    The developers are coming, the developers are coming and they want to turn the Garden of the Arts into the CONDO OF THE ARTS. No joke! After numerous communications and appeals, our City planners and folks at the Commerce department say we need another luxury condo with empty shops where this lush, green oasis currently exists.

    It makes me sick just thinking about it, and a bit angry. The folks in charge are not listening to us at all. We must act now to get their attention.

    Please invite your friends to "friend" our Friends of the Garden of the Arts Facebook page so I can grow this group and grow our awareness for the need to guide the City of Philadelphia toward a smarter development of this green space. Lets do this and see how far we can take it. The future is not yet written!

    Thanks for your time and contribution,

    Laurie Fitzpatrick
    Founder, Executive Director, Board President
    Friends of the Garden of the Arts
    (a 501-C3 corporation)

    Friends of the Garden of the Arts

    (their website will be updated soon.)
    Sorry Gladys, you got this one wrong. This property can almost be considered blight. It's ugly, and it serves only a very small contingent of people--it's fenced off, poorly maintained, and is on one of the most prime, developable corners in the entire region. Great cities have gardens like this in appropriate locations away from major commercial corridors--not directly on them. This is absolutely a step in the right direction for Philly.

  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by gren
    Gladys, don't want you to feel like people are just piling on but in case the city doesn't listen to you guys you should think about some leverage. You might be able to get the city to loan other land close since they're getting rid of this. You might be able to enter into a community benefits agreement with the developer that could get you some land especially if they're looking for many variances. Obviously not something too expensive but if the time comes you can always figure it out. All of the plots are pretty nice (it's some of the edge shrubs and the fence I don't really like) and you all did a great job keeping it up much better than an abandoned lot. I hope you find some good land to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl View Post
    No. Please no.
    HG why do you care - that was just rude.

    Gren. This isn't my group. I was invited to the signing on by a friend on FB. I think the garden can be better maintained. In general am in support of any green space in CC as there is so little of it. I'm passing your suggestions on thank you very much.

    If people don't want it then don't support it. Those who do will.
    "If you're going to tell people the truth, you better make them laugh; otherwise they'll kill you."
    - attributed to both George Bernard Shaw & Oscar Wilde


    "I never clean up after my dogs, because I have trained them to run with me off leash while I ride my bike the wrong way on the sidewalk."
    - LUCas
    Originally Posted by Dave L We need to focus on banning both singers who crap on the sidewalk and dogs that annoy people with their singing. - Mondo

  15. #15
    desolate's Avatar
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    There is so little green space because IT"S THE CORE OF A FREAKIN CITY.

    I'm amazed by the stupid who move next to a farm then complain about the smell.

    Many, many neighborhoods right here in Philadelphia can accommodate you're "green" needs.

    Chesnut Hill, Germantown, Spruce Hill, heck even places like Olney, Parkside, Packer Park.. they all have low density canopy cover, huge parks along them or high amounts of set aside natural areas.


    But when you move to the CORE you lose some things.

    Next, the group will want city funding to maintain said "garden"

    and fight any growth near it.

    INGA SAFFRON herself bitched wildly at the Schuylkill Rover trail's proposed bridge near SOuth St.

    Why?

    Because it would have impacted her PRIVATE garden on PUBLIC land.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  16. #16
    robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by londoner View Post
    Sorry Gladys, you got this one wrong. This property can almost be considered blight. It's ugly, and it serves only a very small contingent of people--it's fenced off, poorly maintained, and is on one of the most prime, developable corners in the entire region. Great cities have gardens like this in appropriate locations away from major commercial corridors--not directly on them. This is absolutely a step in the right direction for Philly.
    Not only does the garden not belong there, but it would set a very bad precedent for other gardens if the condo was blocked. Why would the city or any other land owner ever clean up a vacant lot for a park or garden if it could hinder their ability to latter develop the land?

  17. #17
    gren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl View Post
    No. Please no.
    The city has years of backlog that it doesn't make sense to dump on the market all at once. I see no problem in people tending other city owned land that isn't being used. And often companies like to brag about what they do for the community. If they're willing to go into a CBA or buy some replacement land why not? It's not something you deny zoning / building permits for (obviously) but it's not a "No. Please no." in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    There is so little green space because IT"S THE CORE OF A FREAKIN CITY.
    I think your whole "it's the core, it's not green" is a little off. The core of Paris is quite green. I think it's more about how your land use policy around parks works. Paris manages to have amazing trees on its connectors, amazing parks with larger buildings around them. It doesn't have to be zero sum between the two. I think it's the density which makes the green so enjoyable. I enjoy a good park in Philly far more than I enjoyed the trees and grass which are all over in the suburbs.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishtown Phan View Post
    I've actually always thought that a community garden at a major intersection like that was a serious misuse of land. It should be condos, something that will enhance the streetscape at this major intersection. Within a block I count 6 empty lots that could be converted into a garden.
    Not to mention the exiting community gardens at 9th and South and 12th and Waverly (Come on, that's less than 4 blocks away!). I sympathize with those who are involved with this garden, but there are plenty of alternative lots nearby that could be used as a garden when this gets developed.

    ETA:

    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    I think your whole "it's the core, it's not green" is a little off. The core of Paris is quite green. I think it's more about how your land use policy around parks works. Paris manages to have amazing trees on its connectors, amazing parks with larger buildings around them. It doesn't have to be zero sum between the two. I think it's the density which makes the green so enjoyable. I enjoy a good park in Philly far more than I enjoyed the trees and grass which are all over in the suburbs.
    I think desolate knows he's talking out of his a$$ on that one. in fact, I'll let him provide the counterargument:

    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    I value the open green space that the Mall makes.
    It's needed here.
    I wouldn't like the area for toursits to be filled with seedy shops.
    What to say that the stores that would still "be there" wouldn't be just a Funkmart, A treatment center, and all the things represented in East Market?
    Last edited by Insoluble; 05-13-2011 at 02:02 PM. Reason: to add response

  19. #19
    desolate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    The city has years of backlog that it doesn't make sense to dump on the market all at once. I see no problem in people tending other city owned land that isn't being used. And often companies like to brag about what they do for the community. If they're willing to go into a CBA or buy some replacement land why not? It's not something you deny zoning / building permits for (obviously) but it's not a "No. Please no." in my book.



    I think your whole "it's the core, it's not green" is a little off. The core of Paris is quite green. I think it's more about how your land use policy around parks works. Paris manages to have amazing trees on its connectors, amazing parks with larger buildings around them. It doesn't have to be zero sum between the two. I think it's the density which makes the green so enjoyable. I enjoy a good park in Philly far more than I enjoyed the trees and grass which are all over in the suburbs.
    Give me Paris's "fed level" planning where they tell you where and what you can do and I'll give you a city similar.

    Due to capitalism, we will never be a European City.

    Amsterdam just moves their poor to a fringe, tells you where and what you can do with every parcel. That's how they create the high wealth areas that power their square.

    Not really an answer for this issue but a general dismay at comparing Paris to Philadelphia when we could never legally do what makes Paris, Paris.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  20. #20
    Hospitalitygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladys View Post



    HG why do you care - that was just rude.

    Gren. This isn't my group. I was invited to the signing on by a friend on FB. I think the garden can be better maintained. In general am in support of any green space in CC as there is so little of it. I'm passing your suggestions on thank you very much.

    If people don't want it then don't support it. Those who do will.
    I *care* because I live several blocks away and walk past this eyesore. I am entitled to care. It is poorly maintained, and no one claims responsibility for the derelict state of the sidewalks.

    PS--for being the core of the City, we have an awful lot of green space. I prefer my green space in the core to be far tidier.

    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    The city has years of backlog that it doesn't make sense to dump on the market all at once. I see no problem in people tending other city owned land that isn't being used. And often companies like to brag about what they do for the community. If they're willing to go into a CBA or buy some replacement land why not? It's not something you deny zoning / building permits for (obviously) but it's not a "No. Please no." in my book.
    The problem is that once these "community groups" get their claws into something, and then development IS going to happen, the marches and signs come out until the city or the organization relents and gives it back. It happened only in the past month in Kensington, or one of the river ward neighborhoods.

    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insoluble View Post
    Not to mention the exiting community gardens at 9th and South and 12th and Waverly (Come on, that's less than 4 blocks away!). I sympathize with those who are involved with this garden, but there are plenty of alternative lots nearby that could be used as a garden when this gets developed.

    Thank you!
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

 

 

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