Tomorrow, SCRUB to have an tantrum....

[DCnPhilly]

you are mixing up arguments.

I responded to so mixedupboy who ridiculed the idea that there is a "quaint area next to 676". There are indeed people living there and the bright light from an advertising bilboard is considered an annoyance by them. It probably would be for you as well if you lived there. It would be for most people. If people were living there before a sign goes up, they have every right to try and stop that from happening witht he help of SCRUB. 1001 Race street condo building for example fought a ground floor business that wanted to install a lit sign, and they defeated it. ( It doesn't really matter if the signage is neon or LED, fluorescent, incandescent or whatever ).

Its doubtful those arguing for signage would live next to lit signage invading their home space to the point they need to draw the curtains. Or do you ? I'd like to hear someone speak to how much they and their neighbors love that neon/LED (whatever) outside their window.

___

Getting back to your point, no there isn't much residential on ME. However, one of the arguments for revitalizing ME is that it needs more residents in the area to encourage more retail. I don't think people are going to want to live in an area lit up all night by advertising, and I hardly think people are going to swamp to ME for the advertising.

The argument you choose is probably just a matter of taste, like wether Sao Paulo looks better with or without advertising. Upthread I couldn't disagree more with the person who thinks Sao Paulo looks more inviting with advertising then without. Broadway is pretty cool, but you are totally out of touch with reality if you think ME has even a sliver of a chance to be anything close to being like that, even in the futures. If you want that for PHiladelphia, you will have a better chance of seeing that on Broad Street.

I actually agree with most of this. And I do, in fact live less than a half block of 676. The Chinatown Drift that keeps me up all night is worse than the billboards. Times Square was an urban evolution that really can't be faked. If anyone is proactively considering residential development on Market East I think commercial improvements need to be considered as part of it. I wouldn't want to see bright lights branding Lit Brothers or anything eastward. I don't think living on Market across from the Gallery would be appealing no matter how its improved. Residences would be more successful facing the numbered streets adjacent to Market, at least in the thickest commercial blocks.

That said, I don't think branding Market with lights shouldn't be a one dimensional approach. If they're going to throw up a bunch of lights on the Gallery they could also consider streetscape improvements, display windows, and public spaces. There is a lot that could simply be done to Market that hasn't been done, and the fact that the city approved the lights and we haven't seen them says that no one with any power to change the street (PRIET) isn't that motivated. What were they even fighting for?

[supersupper]

I actually agree with most of this. And I do, in fact live less than a half block of 676. The Chinatown Drift that keeps me up all night is worse than the billboards. Times Square was an urban evolution that really can't be faked. If anyone is proactively considering residential development on Market East I think commercial improvements need to be considered as part of it. I wouldn't want to see bright lights branding Lit Brothers or anything eastward. I don't think living on Market across from the Gallery would be appealing no matter how its improved. Residences would be more successful facing the numbered streets adjacent to Market, at least in the thickest commercial blocks.

That said, I don't think branding Market with lights shouldn't be a one dimensional approach. If they're going to throw up a bunch of lights on the Gallery they could also consider streetscape improvements, display windows, and public spaces. There is a lot that could simply be done to Market that hasn't been done, and the fact that the city approved the lights and we haven't seen them says that no one with any power to change the street (PRIET) isn't that motivated. What were they even fighting for?

I don't mind "branding" ME with lights- that was half my previous point regarding the image of Lit brothers with lights in an abstract pattern vs lights as an advertisement. A light show would be more like christmas lights remaining hanging in one's house well after christmas (i know several people who do this) rather than a glaring advertisements district per the mall's walls for, oh, say, the Dental office currently in the Mall. I do think that market street can be fit for living because Philly is known for its integration of live/work (and how I would brand Philly) , but it will be a long time before that happens.

PS
what do you mean by Chinatown drift ?

[londoner]

you are mixing up arguments.

Getting back to your point, no there isn't much residential on ME. However, one of the arguments for revitalizing ME is that it needs more residents in the area to encourage more retail. I don't think people are going to want to live in an area lit up all night by advertising, and I hardly think people are going to swamp to ME for the advertising.

Who is making the argument that ME needs residential to turn around? Of all the components to a city core, i'd potentially put residential as the LAST thing ME needs. There's more foot traffic through ME than any other place in the city--having a few (thousand) additional residents will hardly tip the scale. Plus, it has Wash Sq. West 3 blocks South, Gayborhood 3 blocks South, Chinatown 2 blocks North. How much closer do these residential areas need to be? It needs to attract:

1) Businesses
2) Large Scale Retail
3) Restaurants
4) Entertainment Venues (HOB type venue, mexa-plex times square style movie theatre, how about a new arena just for the sixers at 8th and Market?--dream a little dream)
5) Hotels

The purpose of the billboards is to bring in revenue for the building owners who will then reinvest it back into ME. That's the incentive-- No one is spending millions on light-screens for a cool display. It's functional commerce.

[supersupper]

Who is making the argument that ME needs residential to turn around? Of all the components to a city core, i'd potentially put residential as the LAST thing ME needs. There's more foot traffic through ME than any other place in the city--having a few (thousand) additional residents will hardly tip the scale. Plus, it has Wash Sq. West 3 blocks South, Gayborhood 3 blocks South, Chinatown 2 blocks North. How much closer do these residential areas need to be? It needs to attract:

1) Businesses
2) Large Scale Retail
3) Restaurants
4) Entertainment Venues (HOB type venue, mexa-plex times square style movie theatre, how about a new arena just for the sixers at 8th and Market?--dream a little dream)
5) Hotels

The purpose of the billboards is to bring in revenue for the building owners who will then reinvest it back into ME. That's the incentive-- No one is spending millions on light-screens for a cool display. It's functional commerce.

Plenty of people have put forth that ME needs a combo of business/retail/live to make the area more viable. Right now it has plenty of foot traffick per people from poorer neighborhoods becasue of easy access via the EL. Its the number one reason why more mid-upscale retailers have been in this mall at one time and have left- their target shoppers are not there.

There is nothing wrong with the infrastructure of the mall that can be "fixed" to bring in more people. You could certainly make it more attractive, but thats only going to help a little unless you bring in Zaha Hadid, and she certainly won't let you hang ugly advertising on here buildings.

No one is spending millions on light-screens for a cool display. It's functional commerce.

Exactly, you agree with me. You obviously missed that whole argument people were making that advertising would look oh so cool and make ME like Times Square and bring in more shoppers.

[Titus]

Decision in on Lit's:

Architectural Committee of Historical Commission recommends denial of Lit Brothers signage | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

[Kukla65th]

It's going to be fascinating to see these cases handled in coming years.

Watch the openings of Rocky II or Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows, and you're treated to beautiful color footage of mass amounts of lively neon signage on Market East. Would love more neon but today it's LED all the way it seems. Not the same.

[Jayfar]

Decision in on Lit's:

Architectural Committee of Historical Commission recommends denial of Lit Brothers signage | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

That's not the decision, which hasn't been made yet. That is only the recommendation of the Architectural Committee.

[Titus]

I guess I should check first... sorry.

[DCnPhilly]

I don't mind "branding" ME with lights- that was half my previous point regarding the image of Lit brothers with lights in an abstract pattern vs lights as an advertisement. A light show would be more like christmas lights remaining hanging in one's house well after christmas (i know several people who do this) rather than a glaring advertisements district per the mall's walls for, oh, say, the Dental office currently in the Mall. I do think that market street can be fit for living because Philly is known for its integration of live/work (and how I would brand Philly) , but it will be a long time before that happens.

PS
what do you mean by Chinatown drift ?

Honestly I wouldn't want to see Lit Bros (or any historic building on ME) branded in advertisement. The front of the Gallery, let marketing "geniuses" have their canvas. In my opinion 8th Street is the start of the historic district.

Maybe both sides are arguing the wrong argument. There must be a way to make the ME commercial corridor look less like Moscow in the 80s and still make everyone happy. Maybe preservationists should be working with developers and suggesting creative solutions to the Grimm space instead of just shouting NO. That's the tactic that leads us to the lowest common denominator, AKA SugarHouse.

Chinatown drift is the dull hum of 676 that keeps me up all night.

[mixiboi]

TOMORROW! Tuesday! Mock ups will be seen....

This Tuesday, See Lit Brothers Roof LCD Mock Up | Hidden City Philadelphia

Tomorrow, from about noon until 2PM, you’ll be able to see first hand the proposed LCD lighting for the Lit Brothers Department Store Building at Eighth and Market.

Shame it won't be at night...

[Butter Sandwich]

I guess they consulted the same people who did the eyesore that is Geno's.

[kidphilly]

TOMORROW! Tuesday! Mock ups will be seen....

This Tuesday, See Lit Brothers Roof LCD Mock Up | Hidden City Philadelphia

Tomorrow, from about noon until 2PM, you’ll be able to see first hand the proposed LCD lighting for the Lit Brothers Department Store Building at Eighth and Market.

Shame it won't be at night...

Dont think it can be at night, they are just going to be basically printed signs

[bluecuracao]

Out of all the buildings on Market East, they've gotta pick the Lit Brothers building to do this to first. Why not the crappy parking garage across the street?

[mixiboi]

Out of all the buildings on Market East, they've gotta pick the Lit Brothers building to do this to first. Why not the crappy parking garage across the street?

\

Because they don't own that lot...

And for some reason The Inky chicken out on their redesign/signage...

[bluecuracao]

\

Because they don't own that lot...

And for some reason The Inky chicken out on their redesign/signage...

I figured. Was really just referring to "they" in the overall sense.

[mixiboi]

At least someone went..Sadly I forgot since I was busy at work...

When Lits gets lit: A strip tease | Philadelphia Real Estate Blog

[MarketStEl]

At least someone went..Sadly I forgot since I was busy at work...

When Lits gets lit: A strip tease | Philadelphia Real Estate Blog

One of my better headlines, if I might say so myself.

[kidphilly]

And I thought a reason to visit ME - guess is just a tease

[supersupper]

[mixiboi]

Cute.