Stop the violins

**6enny** · 07-22-2012, 10:02 PM

Seriously though, any ideas how we could, as concerned citizens, do something to reduce all the Brewerytown gun violence? It hasn't directly affected me at this point, but I read one of these stories about once a month and am annoyed that it's happening so close.

Two shootings leave six injured

Does this kind of stuff come up at cdc meetings?

**McAdams** · 07-23-2012, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by 6enny

Seriously though, any ideas how we could, as concerned citizens, do something to reduce all the Brewerytown gun violence? It hasn't directly affected me at this point, but I read one of these stories about once a month and am annoyed that it's happening so close.

Two shootings leave six injured

Does this kind of stuff come up at cdc meetings?

Wow, simple question, complex answers. One quick, simple answer is to encourage the kind of development MM Partners, and other developers, are doing in Brewerytown. As more middle class people move into the neighborhood, as more middle class businesses and services follow them, one should see less of this kind of activity. It's the culture of poverty/drugs/government assistance, that still has a very strong hold on sections of Brewerytown, that allows the "anti-social" behavior still present in Brewerytown.

Basically, what Al Alston rants and raves against - gentrification - should solve a lot of these problems.

**Moonraker** · 07-23-2012, 09:05 AM

Encourage organizations and churches to sponsor gun collections.
Maybe work with the City to rerun a collection where the drop-offs were at Firehouses or similar neutral, no-police threatening location.
I love the suburban gun dealer who will take-in any gun, regardless of condition, which implies he Hanger-Queens them.

This is quicker that waiting 20 years for Brewerytown to go middle-class.
MM Partners is doing a great job, but they are a start-up.
I suggest a modified version of Baltimore's circa '70's plan where they focused on Blocks not scattered, site.

**Smooth Sailor** · 07-23-2012, 09:34 AM

Gotta love the irony in this quote:

Asked about the shooting, a 57-year-old mother of 10 who wanted to be known only as a "Jesus Lover," said: "It's sickening. Just sickening. There are no jobs and these boys have nothing to do.

Shooting outside party in Brewerytown leaves five injured

**McAdams** · 07-23-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Encourage organizations and churches to sponsor gun collections.
Maybe work with the City to rerun a collection where the drop-offs were at Firehouses or similar neutral, no-police threatening location.
I love the suburban gun dealer who will take-in any gun, regardless of condition, which implies he Hanger-Queens them.

This is quicker that waiting 20 years for Brewerytown to go middle-class.
MM Partners is doing a great job, but they are a start-up.
I suggest a modified version of Baltimore's circa '70's plan where they focused on Blocks not scattered, site.

I have no stats to back up my response to you, but my impression is that gun collection drives have a very limited impact on this kind of violent behavior. The person who shot that house up on Thompson Street is probably not the type of person to turn in a gun in exchange for a gift certificate or some cash. He/she may not have even been from this neighborhood, therefore a gun collection drive in this neighborhood would have been pointless for this particular crime.

One really has to understand the entrenched street culture that is in this neighborhood - and other neighborhoods all over this city - to full appreciate why this stuff happens AND how it can be effectively/properly addressed.

I don't think it will take 20 years for Brewerytown to become middle class. Once the Bottom Dollar is up and running, I think you will see an acceleration of development as more and more people try to cash in on what's happening up here, which in turn, will bring new people and businesses into the neighborhood.

**gideon** · 07-23-2012, 10:00 AM

this happened right around the corner from me. society can't solve this, gentrification will cut it down a bit but this stuff happens everywhere. because of the drug trade here in btown, yeah, it happens more frequently. however, these types of shootings are usually very personal/"business" related. the chances of someone not in those circles being affected by them is minimal.

but, if we were living on the other side of girard or in fairmount proper, we'd have a higher chance of being shot in a robbery. that happened to a friend of mine.

other than that, I find it really interesting where he shot. he aimed below the waist of the people he shot. above the waste and he can be charged with attempted murder. whole thing is really strange. the guy is still out there too. there was no real mention if the people knew him or if he was just passing through.

there is kind of an unspoken curfew here. beyond 1-2AM, the only people generally on the streets are none you want to meet.

**rocknroller** · 07-23-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Smooth Sailor

Gotta love the irony in this quote:

Asked about the shooting, a 57-year-old mother of 10 who wanted to be known only as a "Jesus Lover," said: "It's sickening. Just sickening. There are no jobs and these boys have nothing to do.

Shooting outside party in Brewerytown leaves five injured

Was this the same moron who went on to blame the amount of guns in the neighborhood on the 'gubamint'?

I too doubt gun collections would make any difference. I don't understand why the police don't have foot beats anymore. That seems like it would be the best way to curb criminal activity. When people are seeing the same cops day in and out, they more likely to build a rapport with them.

**Volanova** · 07-23-2012, 02:48 PM

Honestly, the only way to get rid of violence like this is to initiate a shift in the types of culture that promote such things. The 'no-snitching' has to go, and the idea that violence is an acceptable answer to a disagreement must be flushed completely. Gun collections don't do anything to help this situation, nor does stricter gun legislation. Even increased police patrols will only partially curb this problem, although it's a good start. The only way it can be solved is by a paradigm shift in the communities that these perpetrators come from (regardless of race, class, etc.). Gentrification will only push these problems on to another neighborhood, or cause them to become more concentrated in existing rough areas.

**rjj** · 07-23-2012, 03:12 PM

its impossible to evolve if we cant get people to take accountability for their actions.
your uneducated and dont have a job, find a felon and have a kid... repeat... repeat...
if that child grows up to be a problem for society, it's the city's fault for not offering enough programs to keep them busy.

**OffenseTaken** · 07-23-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Volanova

Honestly, the only way to get rid of violence like this is to initiate a shift in the types of culture that promote such things. The 'no-snitching' has to go, and the idea that violence is an acceptable answer to a disagreement must be flushed completely.

You're never going to flush it completely, and frankly, I don't see what's wrong with the occasional fistfight. The real trouble starts when something as vague and meaningless as "disrespect" is considered grounds for mowing down with machine-gun fire everyone standing, at some given moment, on the block where the "disrespecting" person in question lives.

There are cultural defects that need to be fixed for sure, but I don't know if you can call it "cultural" when young males in the ghetto are completely oblivious the prospect of long prison sentences, personal ruin, siring children they cannot care for, and violent, early death. No culture, even the one in the projects, condones that kind of thinking; it really seems to be a purely cognitive defect.

**MariusPontmercy** · 07-23-2012, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

You're never going to flush it completely, and frankly, I don't see what's wrong with the occasional fistfight. The real trouble starts when something as vague and meaningless as "disrespect" is considered grounds for mowing down with machine-gun fire everyone standing, at some given moment, on the block where the "disrespecting" person in question lives.

There are cultural defects that need to be fixed for sure, but I don't know if you can call it "cultural" when young males in the ghetto are completely oblivious the prospect of long prison sentences, personal ruin, siring children they cannot care for, and violent, early death. No culture, even the one in the projects, condones that kind of thinking; it really seems to be a purely cognitive defect.

There's nothing wrong with them cognitively per se... but they've never in their lives probably had to generate a plan of actions that moved towards a long term goal. Not being able to think long term also goes together with poor impulse control. Being able to control impulses for the purpose of a later deferred reward is something normal people can do, but these guys can't. Basically what I'm saying is, they're not cognitively deficient in that they all have some kind of disorder/are of a lesser intelligence, but that they were never seriously challenged to think in the first place. This kind of thinking and self control are the product of experience and upbringing more than anything.

**seand** · 07-23-2012, 04:33 PM

You know there have been studies that say if someone close to you, like an immediate family member, has died from gun violence you are statistically way, way more likely to believe that going out a young age in blaze of "glory" over petty beefs is a logical way to live your life. Dumb gun violence surprisingly follows families.

**CHIOSSO** · 07-23-2012, 04:37 PM

If these guys didn't have guns they would stab each other with knives or beat their brains out with baseball bats.

**seand** · 07-23-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by CHIOSSO

If these guys didn't have guns they would stab each other with knives or beat their brains out with baseball bats.

Sure but when was the last time a 4-yr.-old or innocent bystander was mowed down accidentally by drive-by knifing? Convincing the knuckleheads to switch to baseball bats would be a huge win for the rest of us.

**CHIOSSO** · 07-23-2012, 04:50 PM

That's true, sorry I deleted the post before I saw your answer. Guns are more convenient than knives and bats and a lot less up close and personal. Any punk can be a tough guy with a pistol.

**gideon** · 07-23-2012, 05:11 PM

back when my step brothers were in highschool - late 70's/early 80's, guns were a really big deal. most stuff was handled with fists, then knife. sometimes, very rarely, a gun would come out. that was brooklyn 30+ years ago. when i was in highschool, early 90's, guns were all over the place. i had a few friends who were shot back then over really stupid stuff.

regardless, they are out there and I imagine they are harder for people to get now than they were 30 years ago. yet still they proliferate. the people who want guns will get them.

i don't see any way this will change unless the culture changes and good luck with that. it's entrenched and its very profitable.

**OffenseTaken** · 07-23-2012, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by seand

You know there have been studies that say if someone close to you, like an immediate family member, has died from gun violence you are statistically way, way more likely to believe that going out a young age in blaze of "glory" over petty beefs is a logical way to live your life. Dumb gun violence surprisingly follows families.

Not surprising that the correlation is there. We also have to admit the possibility that dumb families follow gun violence.

**MariusPontmercy** · 07-23-2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by gideon

i don't see any way this will change unless the culture changes and good luck with that. it's entrenched and its very profitable.

It is, but why? Who makes it that way? I would imagine living the way these guys do, and getting offed by the age of 25, would be bad characteristics to have if you're thinking of supporting a strong family or community. It's profitable and makes sense short term for these kids now, but much of that is artificial policy.

**rjj** · 07-23-2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by seand

You know there have been studies that say if someone close to you, like an immediate family member, has died from gun violence you are statistically way, way more likely to believe that going out a young age in blaze of "glory" over petty beefs is a logical way to live your life. Dumb gun violence surprisingly follows families.

you grow up to be like the people that raised you?
no way, most studies point to you being a product of the environment you were raised in?

**Volanova** · 07-23-2012, 05:30 PM

Not sure if this is what spawned this thread in the beginning, but there was an article on Philly.com about this today:

What more do we have to give to end 'stop-snitching' culture?

"Stop snitching" is not solely a function of fear, says local NAACP head Jerry Mondesire.

Although "stop snitching" was once an attitude — Mondesire points to Philly's gang wars of the '70s — it has evolved into a lifestyle, a behavior that parents teach their young, he says with a mix of frustration and bewilderment.

Mondesire finds that even among the NAACP's Youth Council — future leaders who know the NAACP's history, values and programs — they say they don't believe in talking to police. "It's very depressing," he says.