Stop the violins

[MM Partners]

No one is saying there are more shootings in Fairmount than Brewerytown. The original point was that random violence such as muggings, holdups, robberies, etc., is not necessarily less likely to occur there. I don't see why that's such a crazy proposition.

Putting aside neighborhood parochialism, it is a quite reasonable proposition that if you are a law abiding citizen whose friends and family are law abiding citizens without "neighborhood beef" that you are likely to enjoy a similar level of safety in Brewerytown as in Fairmount. We have many many tenants living north of Girard (including around the corner from this recent incident) and not once have they been harmed by violent crime. It is very logical to believe that a bad person wanting to steal money and/or property from a person or house would go to a more affluent neighborhood such as Fairmount.

None of this is to imply that Fairmount is dangerous, but rather to note that it's not danger of imminent death 1 block north of Girard, but peaches and cream 1 block south (or even 2 or 3 blocks). One should always take precautions and use street-smarts wherever you live, of course, and please do not read this post as dismissive of violent crime in Brewerytown. It is crazy that is is accepted for people to settle personal disputes with gunfire. With that said, the overwhelmingly majority of crime in Brewrytown is either "business" related or "beef" related.

[gideon]

this is what i was getting at but you've said it better than i did.

i view neighborhoods like this as where people committing robberies, muggings, thefts, etc are likely coming from to some extent. people who are law abiding and not in any way associated with these entities in an area very much do live a safer life but there's always risk of something happening, as anywhere. then again, they are more likely to get police involved as they themselves don't have much or anything to worry about with police showing up nor the personal connections to the people who committed a crime or their families. its like this in fishtown and east kensington to.

but if you're not involved in the life of the people with the family or "business" related beefs then they really don't want anything to do with you on any level. except for the one time when one of the guys, who was doing something around the corner for a while, knocked on my door to tell me I left my phone in my car and he wasn't going to be out all night.

i find that a lot of that element really doesn't want attention brought upon themselves and that messing with some random people who've moved to the area really doesn't do any good for them. they do watch you though to determine what you are.

that said, i know one person who was held up and shot twice one block south of fairmount and 21st. another two who were held up at gun point. nobody I've spoken with here in brewerytown has had that happen to them. then plenty more people who have had problems in old city and queen village.

[Big Irish]

it is a quite reasonable proposition that if you are a law abiding citizen whose friends and family are law abiding citizens without "neighborhood beef" that you are likely to enjoy a similar level of safety in Brewerytown as in Fairmount.

Quite reasonable but not realistic. You're not as safe in Brewerytown, even if you happen to be a law abiding gentrtifier. You are inherently less safe in a neighborhood where the bullets are flying. These shootings do not happen in a vacuum. Innocent bystanders get shot & killed all the time when these "neighborhood beefs" or "business disputes" degenerate into gunfire. It's in the news every week.

We have many many tenants living north of Girard (including around the corner from this recent incident) and not once have they been harmed by violent crime.

It's self-serving of you to say that, impossible to verify, and ancedotal. Crime stats point out that more violent crime happens, and happens more frequently, in Brewerytown. Your chances of being a victim of violent crime, whether you live in an MM Partners property or not, are higher in Brewerytown than Fairmount.

It is very logical to believe that a bad person wanting to steal money and/or property from a person or house would go to a more affluent neighborhood such as Fairmount.

Actually it's logical to believe that a bad person wanting to steal money and/or drugs would go to a place where drug houses & the drug trade are prevalent, which would be Brewerytown. It's much easier (and more profitable) to rob drug houses & drug dealers than to try and burgle the houses of the middle class and pawn property. After all, we're not talking priceless art, antiques & jewelry. Most of the working class own a little jewelry & don't keep large sums of cash on their person or in their house. It's faster, easier & more profitable to steal from those in the drug business than tote away flat screens.

[seand]

Actually it's logical to believe that a bad person wanting to steal money and/or drugs would go to a place where drug houses & the drug trade are prevalent, which would be Brewerytown. It's much easier (and more profitable) to rob drug houses & drug dealers than to try and burgle the houses of the middle class and pawn property. After all, we're not talking priceless art, antiques & jewelry. Most of the working class own a little jewelry & don't keep large sums of cash on their person or in their house. It's faster, easier & more profitable to steal cash & drugs from those in the drug business than tote away flat screens.

OK you just said none of the black folks in B-town work and that just not true.

Nor is the rest of it very logical. The people doing petty property crimes actually often tend to be the drug users, paying for quick high. They are not going to steal from the gun-toting dealers because they aren't that stupid. People won't talk about a shooting they clearly saw because they are afraid of being shot by a dealer but they are going to steal his flat screen? C'mon.

No, Other poor people are less profitable to steal from than middle class people if you want to get in, get out and get high and only those with a death wish would steal from dealers. None of this made a lick of sense.

[MM Partners]

@Big Irish: We get it. You love Fairmount. It is your neighborhood, and you don't want it compared to Brewerytown in any way shape or form. It's OK, they are different neighborhoods in different stages of existence. No one here is knocking Fairmount, or saying it is a dangerous place. In fact, many people who choose to live in Brewerytown would live in Fairmount if the cost was lower there; that is what we base our business plan on, and so we love Fairmount as well.

We're merely pointing out some perception vs. reality dichotomies. If you won't take our word for it, that's fine, but you certainly should take the word of the multiple Brewerytown residents posting in this thread who are saying the same thing. Your perception of a bountiful amount of drug houses in Brewerytown is totally out of date and inaccurate.

If you are truly interested in that topic you can speak with the beat cop of Girard Avenue, Officer Bryant who will tell you the same thing as us. Or spend some time on Girard and north. Go to Marathon Farm's market at 27th & Master on Saturdays, check out the Philly Sport & Social Club-organized soccer games at Athletic Square, or just take a walk around one sunny afternoon. You will find a quiet and welcoming neighborhood, albeit one that is very much in the proces of revitalization, and has it's good and bad blocks, good and bad people.

Ultimately we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Big Irish]

No one here is knocking Fairmount, or saying it is a dangerous place.

Really? This is the reason I even chimed in:

but, if we were living on the other side of girard or in fairmount proper, we'd have a higher chance of being shot in a robbery. that happened to a friend of mine.

That was such an asinine statement I had to call them out on it. And to make matters worse they later said they were referencing a shooting at 21st & Green, which is in Spring Garden.

And you have property for sale & rent in Brewerytown, I get it. And I agree with you, most of the people who buy/rent in Brewerytown would do so in Fairmount if they could afford it. But those same people should also take their heads out of the sand and stop trying to rationalize the violent crimes & shootings in their neighborhood by saying the same thing happens in Fairmount, because it doesn't. Not in scope or frequency. You can't equate someone stealing a bike with a 5 person shooting.

As for the reality vs perception argument, the crime stats speak for themselves. As for the number of drug houses/drug dealers you yourself said "the overwhelmingly majority of crime in Brewerytown is either "business" related or "beef" related." Another poster wrote "the violence that occurs in Brewerytown tends to be gang related". Obviously you & the residents of that neighborhood know it better than I, and you're the ones who brought up the crime/drug business correlation.

I really hope you succeed in gentrifying that neighborhood. The better Brewerytown becomes the better it is for the bordering blocks in Fairmount because, as has been pointed out by me & others, the criminal element doesn't recognize Girard Ave as any kind of a boundry. When the criminal element in Brewerytown finally leaves, the neighboring blocks in Fairmount will see less crime.

[gideon]

shooting was at 21st and wallace. whether that is technically spring garden or fairmount and you want to get ocd on it, that's your choice.

[Big Irish]

shooting was at 21st and wallace. whether that is technically spring garden or fairmount and you want to get ocd on it, that's your choice.

No need to get all technical. We'll just say all the crimes committed 1 block south of Girard were done in Brewerytown and call it even.

[gideon]

No need to get all technical. We'll just say all the crimes committed 1 block south of Girard were done in Brewerytown and call it even.

deal.

[LUCas]

Being afraid to "snitch" on a murderous drug organization is not the same as being unwilling to call and complain about "some MoFo stole my bike" in case it turns up and you get a chance to recover it. You are putting all kinds of projections on people you don't interact much with in real life, I suspect.

And you clearly don't understand the don't snitch culture and distrust of the police in some communities.

[seand]

And you clearly don't understand the don't snitch culture and distrust of the police in some communities.

So you say. I only know what I experience from dealing with my neighbors of various backgrounds around 50th and Baltimore. We had a police shooting of a suspect who ran down our block from 52nd about 2 or 3 years ago. Lots of my neighbors, black and white gave their account of the shooting to police investigators who came through door to door.

People may have skepticism that reporting incidents to the police will actually do anything (for good reason) but nobody is afraid to "snitch" on Crackhead Joe who is, say, breaking everybody's car windows to go through their glove box. They may not want to testify against the Such-and-such Click, drug organization, but thats because they are skeptical about the police's ability to actually protect them (again for good reason, sadly).