Considering moving to the neighborhood...

**Moonraker** · 07-02-2012, 08:02 AM

Perspective residents should look at statistics and data, which is available on-line and from local communtity organizations.
The police districts conducts monthly community meetings, and welcomes guests. Perspective residents should compare the data from Brewerytown, Sharswood, Francesville and Strawberry Mansion, with Northern Liberties and Fishtown. Then take some time and walk Girard & 29th, day and night, and make your observations.

A problem with Brewerytown is that the classical urban real estate issue. Resources are needed, and current residents will be displaced. Society Hill is the 1950's case study.
The upgrade of Fairmount to Middleclass was facilitated by the availability of Masterman and Greenfield elementary. Equivalent schools in Brewerytown are not convienent.
The cost of renovation, has a slow payback, and many 'pioneers' will be gone in 5-10 years. Developers need to make some profit. That ain't happening anytime soon.

**rjj** · 07-02-2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

I guess brewerytown's issue is you need ballsy brave people to pave the way for others to move into the neighborhood

They need that first wave of gentrification... You know hipsters, gays, students etc

Problem is those people don't want to live in that area because fairmount is square. Square people dont gentrify hoods, they don't have the balls

That said, it's a perfect location... People like mm partners keep putting in work and eventually it'll reach a tipping point. Just doesn't seem like it will happen as fast as other hoods.

you are leaving out all the tax incentives. i know a whole bunch of folks that arent hipsters, students, gays or ballsy that have moved to Brewerytown recently because of existing tax abatements and the interest rate incentives for buying in that area. when you combine the cost of the property plus total tax burden, for many folks its just too significant to ignore.

**raider.adam** · 07-02-2012, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Resources are needed, and current residents will be displaced.

Mind supporting that? Sounds like the usual gentrification boogeyman talking point.

**JakeL** · 07-02-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Moonraker

A problem with Brewerytown is that the classical urban real estate issue. Resources are needed, and current residents will be displaced. Society Hill is the 1950's case study.
The upgrade of Fairmount to Middleclass was facilitated by the availability of Masterman and Greenfield elementary. Equivalent schools in Brewerytown are not convienent.
The cost of renovation, has a slow payback, and many 'pioneers' will be gone in 5-10 years. Developers need to make some profit. That ain't happening anytime soon.

I would disagree with your idea that residents need to be displaced. From 1990 to 2010, there was a 17% population decrease in the 19121 zip code from 1990 to 2010. This percentage is buoyed by the development of vacant lots west of Temple, if it only included the Sharswood and Brewerytown, this decline would be an even higher. Longtime residents have been moving out for years as gun violence and vacant houses blighted the neighborhood. I would argue that these factors displace residents much more than gentrification. For example, from 1990 to 2000, the area in Sharswood around the PHA towers emptied out by over 50% of the residents. Drive by today and you'll see whole blocks vacant as people fled from the violence in that vicinity.

With 1,200 vacant parcels in Brewerytown alone, which represent 31% of the land use, there is plenty of opportunity for growth without displacing anyone. The neighborhood has seen a hollowing out of people, in 1940 Brewerytown had 30,651 residents, in 2000 it had 12,025, a 61% decrease in population. Adding 5,000 or even 10,000 new residents to the neighborhood will still leave us significantly below the population highs of 60 years ago.

As the method of displacement through gentrification is always portrayed in the form of increased property taxes that push residents out, this must obviously mean that 1) taxes will rise to levels unaffordable to longtime residents and 2) enforcement of these tax payments takes place. However, as we can see from the mapping of tax delinquent properties, there is no enforcement for tax delinquency. Every single block in Brewerytown is littered with tax delinquent properties, even as tax rates are humorously low. I pay a measly $660 a year in taxes, or $55 a month. However, even with these small penances, prior to any form of gentrification or property tax increases, delinquency abounds. Properties such as one on Marston St owe $40,000 and haven't paid a single bill since Jimmy Carter was president. Afraid of taxes driving out longterm residents? Just tell them not to pay, as 12,155 parcels have already figured out in the 19121 zip code, representing $45,000,000 in lost revenue in this zipcode alone.

**JakeL** · 07-02-2012, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by rjj

you are leaving out all the tax incentives. i know a whole bunch of folks that arent hipsters, students, gays or ballsy that have moved to Brewerytown recently because of existing tax abatements and the interest rate incentives for buying in that area. when you combine the cost of the property plus total tax burden, for many folks its just too significant to ignore.

Good point, I forgot to add the interest rate incentive in my previous post to the comparison of cost for Brewerytown vs Fairmount. When I bought in May of last year, I got a 1.00% discount on my loan rate since I bought in Brewerytown rather than Fairmount, dropping my interest rate from 4.625% to 3.625%. I'll save $16,000 over the course of my loan because of the incentive. With interest rates even lower than when I bought, if someone buys now, they could drop their interest rate from 3.7% to 2.7% for a 30 year loan.

**raider.adam** · 07-02-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by JakeL

Good point, I forgot to add the interest rate incentive in my previous post to the comparison of cost for Brewerytown vs Fairmount. When I bought in May of last year, I got a 1.00% discount on my loan rate since I bought in Brewerytown rather than Fairmount, dropping my interest rate from 4.625% to 3.625%. I'll save $16,000 over the course of my loan because of the incentive. With interest rates even lower than when I bought, if someone buys now, they could drop their interest rate from 3.7% to 2.7% for a 30 year loan.

Really? I was unaware there were any interest rate programs. Any details?

**JakeL** · 07-02-2012, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Really? I was unaware there were any interest rate programs. Any details?

My loan is through Citizen's Bank, which offered the 1% discount. You have to be a first-time homebuyer and (I think) you need to use an FHA loan. As it's an FHA, I did 3.5% down, as I could invest at a higher rate rather than put down a higher payment. My mortgage agent was Christine McAroy, who I believe has worked with a couple of Brewerytown properties and would know more details.

**Big Irish** · 07-02-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Moonraker

The upgrade of Fairmount to Middleclass was facilitated by the availability of Masterman and Greenfield elementary.

No, it wasn't. Fairmount had 3 catholic elementary schools on 24th St and almost all of Fairmount's kids went to one of them. Very, very few neighborhood kids went to Greenfield. I knew just one. And the vast majority of the neighborhood kids went to Roman or Prep for high school. Very few went to Masterman. (The Greenfield student I knew went to Roman). And Fairmount was solidly middle class before it was "gentrified", as evidenced by all the families sending their kids to catholic schools.

**BarryG** · 07-02-2012, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Big Irish

No, it wasn't. Fairmount had 3 catholic elementary schools on 24th St and almost all of Fairmount's kids went to one of them. Very, very few neighborhood kids went to Greenfield. I knew just one. And the vast majority of the neighborhood kids went to Roman or Prep for high school. Very few went to Masterman. (The Greenfield student I knew went to Roman). And Fairmount was solidly middle class before it was "gentrified", as evidenced by all the families sending their kids to catholic schools.

I thought Fairmount was always middle class, or at least since the '50s.

**raider.adam** · 07-02-2012, 07:08 PM

And Masterman isn't a cachement school.

**Big Irish** · 07-02-2012, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by BarryG

I thought Fairmount was always middle class, or at least since the '50s.

It was.

**the mule** · 07-02-2012, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Really? I was unaware there were any interest rate programs. Any details?

Like Jake said, Citizens offers varying discounts (up to 1% off) to first time homebuyers based on location in certain low and moderate income neighborhoods. They've offered this for a while and it's a tremendous deal combined with the already affordable cost of housing and low taxes in those neighborhoods. I believe Citibank also has something similar that's open to repeat buyers. You'll have to talk to a loan officer at either bank because they don't advertise it very widely.

**Rain** · 07-16-2012, 08:41 PM

Okay - more info in hopes of more great advice! I'm a white woman in my 20's who is relatively new to Philly. I work in center city and walk (sometimes bike) to and from work at very odd hours (including 5:30 am and 11:30 pm). I've been renting in the area between Fairmount and Girard, but am now looking to buy a place. I do have a car that I would need to find parking for (and sometimes at odd hours, ruling out a lot of places in Fairmount). I live alone, which also presents concerns.

@MM - When I posted this thread, I was considering a unit at 28 North. I was disappointed that you turned them into rentals.

**the mule** · 07-17-2012, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rain

@MM - When I posted this thread, I was considering a unit at 28 North. I was disappointed that you turned them into rentals.

Is this true, are they all rentals now?

**love to travel** · 07-17-2012, 07:34 AM

I didn't know they were rentals . Anyway MM has a beautiful house on 1200 blk 30th for sale asking $185k i think . I'm a white women too ,walks to work in center city early in the morning , bought my house 4 years ago live alone never had a problem . Young white girl lives across the street from me manager in a bar rides her bike home late at night . Never had a problem .

**Sharkfood** · 07-17-2012, 09:16 PM

Regarding displacement, virtually every black person I know from north or west Philadelphia either wants to move or has moved . . . To Delaware county, to Delaware, to the far northeast, to north Carolina, anywhere but their current surroundings

**raider.adam** · 07-18-2012, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sharkfood

Regarding displacement, virtually every black person I know from north or west Philadelphia either wants to move or has moved . . . To Delaware county, to Delaware, to the far northeast, to north Carolina, anywhere but their current surroundings

Displacement is significantly over-exaggerated.

**MM Partners** · 07-22-2012, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by the mule

Is this true, are they all rentals now?

They are, yes. We had several units under contract, but decided that, given the long term trends in favor of the rental market, going all-rental with the building was the better business decision. Using N28 as a rental greatly diversifies our rental portfolio, as we can now offer a higher end product with parking that is still extremely affordable compared to similar nearby buildings in Fairmount. Seeing as how we have leased half the building in the 3 weeks since we began marketing them as rental apartments, it certainly appears to have been the correct business decision.

@Rain: If you are still interested in purchasing in the neighborhood, please contact our office and ask to speak with Aaron. We are proud of having successfully worked with multiple home buyers (many of whom were our tenants) to create a custom home for their needs, and would love the opportunity to do the same for you.

**raider.adam** · 07-22-2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by MM Partners

They are, yes. We had several units under contract, but decided that, given the long term trends in favor of the rental market, going all-rental with the building was the better business decision. Using N28 as a rental greatly diversifies our rental portfolio, as we can now offer a higher end product with parking that is still extremely affordable compared to similar nearby buildings in Fairmount. Seeing as how we have leased half the building in the 3 weeks since we began marketing them as rental apartments, it certainly appears to have been the correct business decision.

@Rain: If you are still interested in purchasing in the neighborhood, please contact our office and ask to speak with Aaron. We are proud of having successfully worked with multiple home buyers (many of whom were our tenants) to create a custom home for their needs, and would love the opportunity to do the same for you.

Yeah, sounds like the right decision. Plus, nothing stops you from converting back in the future.

**the mule** · 07-23-2012, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by MM Partners

They are, yes. We had several units under contract, but decided that, given the long term trends in favor of the rental market, going all-rental with the building was the better business decision. Using N28 as a rental greatly diversifies our rental portfolio, as we can now offer a higher end product with parking that is still extremely affordable compared to similar nearby buildings in Fairmount. Seeing as how we have leased half the building in the 3 weeks since we began marketing them as rental apartments, it certainly appears to have been the correct business decision.

Good to know. I'm a big believer in the future of Brewerytown and was interested in how condos would pan out. I'm glad they're leasing out fairly quickly, more people dipping their toes in the rental market hopefully will turn into more future long term residents.