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  1. #21
    StrangeTanks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay from Philly View Post
    I would still say this is better than PHA holding them, i.e. subsidized blight.
    Agree 100%. Now we just need to get the rest of these slimy city agencies to give up their pile.

  2. #22
    love to travel is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeTanks View Post
    Agree 100%. Now we just need to get the rest of these slimy city agencies to give up their pile.
    To all that would like to send emails to the head of PHA ,so that they will sell off all the PHA vacant houses Michael.Kelly@pha.phila.gov

  3. #23
    schuylkillian is offline Member
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    I'd rather see the auctioned properties flipped than remain in PHA hands. Interestingly, there are two homes on the 2900 block of Cambridge St. - 2910 and 2914 - that are still owned by PHA. I know for sure one of these homes has been vacant for a least 3 years. PHA purchased these properties in 1982 for $300,000 a peice! Completely unbelievable. PHA through its corruption, cronyism, and poor management has been in the business of destroying neighborhoods for a long time.

  4. #24
    girardo19122 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuylkillian View Post
    I'd rather see the auctioned properties flipped than remain in PHA hands. Interestingly, there are two homes on the 2900 block of Cambridge St. - 2910 and 2914 - that are still owned by PHA. I know for sure one of these homes has been vacant for a least 3 years. PHA purchased these properties in 1982 for $300,000 a peice! Completely unbelievable. PHA through its corruption, cronyism, and poor management has been in the business of destroying neighborhoods for a long time.
    If PHA acquired them as a package (likely given that the sale date is the same), the purchase price of the whole package gets recorded against each property involved.

  5. #25
    Moonraker is offline Rocket Scientist
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    Pardon if I missed it, but where are the listings for the homes being flipped? Papers, MLS et al.

  6. #26
    love to travel is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonraker View Post
    Pardon if I missed it, but where are the listings for the homes being flipped? Papers, MLS et al.
    Trulia

  7. #27
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    Default hot potato, hot potaoe who is collecting for doing no work at all

    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    Well, I would premise that an auction doesn't necessarily maximize the value since you are dealing with buyers that take the time to go to an auction and have a certain amount of cash on hand. What the auction does is minimize the overhead and time involved with selling.

    If they wanted to maximize value, they would list them with realtors and estimated starting price levels, but then you are talking about a process that could take anywhere from a month to years to sell it all off.

    Sure they probably don't get top dollar with the auctions (especially since you don't get to walk through the property to accurately calculate rehab costs), but the whole process gets finished in a single day.
    This looks more and more as a hot potato, hot potatoe, game being won continuosly by thieves and then to even get paid for doing no work at all as i have mentioned here http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...and-month.html here Quimby was the direct supervisor of Perri, Kinkade and Cionci. Quimby was in charge of authorizing PHA purchases from Home Depot. Quimby retired earlier this year and went to work for General Asphalt Paving Co., owned by the family of city GOP power broker Michael Meehan. Quimby did not return calls to his homes in Philadelphia and the Poconos.

    At the Ballard Spahr meeting, Quimby implicated PHA managers who were in charge of maintenance at scattered sites. The managers said they told Quimby that they knew nothing about the Home Depot orders and had not approved them, according to some of those present at the meeting.

    The managers told Quimby that none of the materials, including a stainless-steel refrigerator and a microwave, had gone into any PHA homes.

    In early 2009, when Mann Faulker was deep into the investigation, Greene fired her and replaced her with Jim Eisenhower, of Schnader Harrison, according to a source familiar with the investigation.

    Eisenhower declined to comment on what had become of the internal investigation. here ( FBI investigating major theft ring at PHA - Philly.com )

    I guess anyone would be a little upset if they found him guilty of accepting 140 bucks in 5 years or (30 bucks a year) and leaving the sharks get away free and clear for not opening their mouth


    here FBI investigating major theft ring at PHA - Philly.com


    Didn't they pay the queen ackermann for keeping her mouth shut (what's that all about)

    i know i know i am the criminal here for accepting 140 bucks over 5 years or 30 bucks a year when it was me who found them shoveling 100 grand a month from taxpayer coffers to and from the powers to be ?
    surprising none of these crimes fall into federal prosecuting range of racketeering, extortion , conspiracy, or interstate commerce law as did my case & prosecution & conviction.
    i guess they r waiting for the statue of limitations to run out so they do not have to prosecute?

    Does this leave all the old cases of unaccountability mute, and allow no chances of ever getting any of these tax frauds and misuse of taxpayer funds back to the original purpose of what they were assigned for LOST.
    sorry poor people you lose, and the very rich win because they have more money and better lawyers.

    FBI investigating major theft ring at PHA - Page 3 - Philly.com
    only the tip of iceberg
    how far can this go. is only as far as these people we employ will allow it, and it seems to have hit a dead end.
    WHY?
    well poor people and taxpaying citizens at least your tax money paid for a few hookers for some. (wait that was cruel)
    A RAPIST TO GO FREE is better semantics

    http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...tml#post443461

    PHA nonprofit didn't file with IRS - Page 2 - Philly.com

    Ackerman talks; does the 900G walk? - Philly.com
    Ackerman talks; does the 900G walk?

    good luck in the best interests of the taxpaying citizens
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  8. #28
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    and the money flows on
    There is so much theft and corruption within pha , that no sooner do they find it, it is covered up with bonuses, and vacations. I do know that most of you are aware of who I am but I was once a plumbing inspector for the the city of phila. dept of l&i . Who found that permits were not being enforced or required by pha who was paying (with taxpayer money) for work that was never done , no inspections, and no permits . What I have found was that over 100 grand a month thefts and frauds were being paid for and being ignored by the officials in charge of these so called great programs designed to help the poor. But what they really were, was a shuffling of incomplete paperwork working against the people whom it was designed to help and for the people whom I would consider scam artist's
    But:
    what I have found is that it is easier to just raise taxes across the board to allow these kinds of theft's frauds and misappropriations to continue.
    so to all of you people who are up in arms the only thing I can say is have fun and that and Good Luck
    My evidence is listed throughout my postings within this forum and the paperwork is free on my site.
    I AM A RICO FELON
    Racketeering
    Interstate commerce destroying
    Conspirator
    of an Organization such as L&I
    found and convicted of accepting bribes of 160 bucks over a 5 year period from licensed plumber's
    and I have been found guilty & plead guilty as charged
    • 1) Were they aware that money was being defrauded to the poor ?
    • 2 ) Why has nothing been done to try to bring these kinds of thefts & frauds to a HALT ?
    • 3 ) How many kinds of thefts or frauds such as these ever been looked into
    • where?
    • 4 ) How many Bonuses or promotions been given out
    • Where ?
    • 5 ) Are any judges aware of any ?
    • 6 ) Is there any P.H.A. money available ?
    • 7 ) Doesn't it seem as this could make a great story for
    • Hollywood?
    • 8 )Are there many mistakes made
    • when?
    • 9) How much of this money has been given to client's such as dewey
    • cheatum &
    • how?
    • 10 ) Is the irs interested in much money owed the state or federal ?
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  9. #29
    sharkey is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    A lot of people continue to complain that it's illogical to sell PHA property because it may go to a speculator who will squat on it.


    But here is the deal---if you create a never-ending vortex of Sheriff's Sales that suck in blighted properties through the auction system and you use Act 90 to attach the personal assets of owners who fail to pay their fines and fees (to get past LLC/LLP shells some houses are deeded to), you eliminate that problem.


    If you narrow the time horizon from when you pick up a Sheriff's Sale property, to when the City takes the property away from you to 2 years, then it doesn't make much economic sense to play the Real Estate Squat game (ala Sam Rappaport). The City can write up L&I violations, which won't get paid, use Act 90, which the owner won't pay, then the property is taken away again in Sheriff's Sale. This eliminates any profit off of playing the Real Estate casino of holding on to a property and not maintaining it or paying any taxes on it, in hopes that someday a windfall may happen if someone wants to buy it.


    Each time the City makes money on the Real Estate Transfer Tax when the property is again sold at auction. That's better than the City earning nothing off these properties. And hey, if a responsible owner buys them, then it will continue to generate revenue for Philadelphia.

    No transfer tax on Sheriff Sales.

  10. #30
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    Chances are that a good deal of the properties were sold at under market value. It's basic economics. There was a limited number of buyers with the means or interest to purchase the properties at the auctions, and the auctions themselves introduced a glut of properties all at once. With limited capital available to go around and bid up all but the most valuable properties, a good many ended up selling for less.

    This is why it would be a huge mistake for the city to just auction off all the rest of its properties held by Public Property or RDA. It would be great for investors with liquid capital, but a terrible deal for taxpayers. List the properties in areas with greater demand on MLS and let competitive offers come in. Package the dogs and auction those off. And as much as I hate to see the process be drawn out over several rounds of sales, that's the best way to maximize the revenue.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Chances are that a good deal of the properties were sold at under market value. It's basic economics. There was a limited number of buyers with the means or interest to purchase the properties at the auctions, and the auctions themselves introduced a glut of properties all at once. With limited capital available to go around and bid up all but the most valuable properties, a good many ended up selling for less.

    This is why it would be a huge mistake for the city to just auction off all the rest of its properties held by Public Property or RDA. It would be great for investors with liquid capital, but a terrible deal for taxpayers. List the properties in areas with greater demand on MLS and let competitive offers come in. Package the dogs and auction those off. And as much as I hate to see the process be drawn out over several rounds of sales, that's the best way to maximize the revenue.
    I think it's a better approach to examine where rehabs are going on (i.e. PB and East Kensington) and ramp up the sales in those areas where it's clear that private capital investment is increasing based on what is going on the ground in the private market. It won't hurt to release shells and vacant land since that only quickens the pace of redevelopment with those cheap properties coming online and a market of rehabbing that exists.

    That moves the goal posts as rehabbers swallow those properties up. For instance, say Kensington quickens up and the next area to see private market interest is Kensington & Somerset or perhaps even further north. PB and East Kensington have a huge asset (subway and the EL) which is making the rehabbing attractive to buyers and renters in the property market.



    The biggest developments going on in EK right now are right up against the EL itself, within a few blocks of the stations. Go out and look how fast Norris Street is changing. Why not start that process along some of the other EL stations up to Harrowgate? Norris Square Civic is making the claim that they are having to defend against gentrification, which is a clear indicator that the interest is there and the private market WANTS to improve the neighborhoods and capitalize on those improvements. That's a positive cycle, not a negative one.


    We have some megalots here in Kensington that are owned by PHA. PHA should release those properties now, rather than later.

  12. #32
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    No transfer tax on Sheriff Sales.
    The city makes money on sheriff's sales, because the city gets 100% of every dollar until the city gets 100% of what it is owed. Then the owner of record gets the rest. Since the city is in first position, and second position too, it gets the lion's share of the money that buyers pay at tax sales. I guess Act 90 sales won't technically be tax sales, but they'll be done at the tax sales, I would think.

  13. #33
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    I think it's a better approach to examine where rehabs are going on (i.e. PB and East Kensington) and ramp up the sales in those areas where it's clear that private capital investment is increasing based on what is going on the ground in the private market. It won't hurt to release shells and vacant land since that only quickens the pace of redevelopment with those cheap properties coming online and a market of rehabbing that exists.

    That moves the goal posts as rehabbers swallow those properties up. For instance, say Kensington quickens up and the next area to see private market interest is Kensington & Somerset or perhaps even further north. PB and East Kensington have a huge asset (subway and the EL) which is making the rehabbing attractive to buyers and renters in the property market.



    The biggest developments going on in EK right now are right up against the EL itself, within a few blocks of the stations. Go out and look how fast Norris Street is changing. Why not start that process along some of the other EL stations up to Harrowgate? Norris Square Civic is making the claim that they are having to defend against gentrification, which is a clear indicator that the interest is there and the private market WANTS to improve the neighborhoods and capitalize on those improvements. That's a positive cycle, not a negative one.


    We have some megalots here in Kensington that are owned by PHA. PHA should release those properties now, rather than later.
    The Philly rehab market is deep enough that if the city/gov't were to sell off properties where there are strong comps for rehabbed properties (say, to use Darrel Clarke's example, near Temple but not in adjacent Strawberry Mansion), the dogs in those areas will get snapped up. Moreover, this very process will strengthen and deepen the rehab market as more and more people get in on the game of 'disposing' of derelict government-owned or even privately owned properties. Thus the city could do a phased ramp-up of asset sales, with the pool of buyers growing as the market adjusts to the new economics of profits to be made rehabbing / building on formerly derelict land. I actually think that that's what is happening now. There is tremendous economic and tax base gain to be had by doing this. It's how I got started, in a way, and it's a way out of the city's poverty trap on a macro scale. The city has far too many derelict parcels dragging it down, and the more quickly it returns these to the tax rolls, so that they make the city money instead of costing the city money, the more quickly the city will regain its health. I distrust the whole land bank idea - people like Norris Square Civic would grab these places and try to forever keep them off the tax rolls, or on the rolls at a diminished level with residents who are on the dole.
    Last edited by billy ross; 04-18-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  14. #34
    raider.adam is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Chances are that a good deal of the properties were sold at under market value. It's basic economics. There was a limited number of buyers with the means or interest to purchase the properties at the auctions, and the auctions themselves introduced a glut of properties all at once. With limited capital available to go around and bid up all but the most valuable properties, a good many ended up selling for less.

    This is why it would be a huge mistake for the city to just auction off all the rest of its properties held by Public Property or RDA. It would be great for investors with liquid capital, but a terrible deal for taxpayers. List the properties in areas with greater demand on MLS and let competitive offers come in. Package the dogs and auction those off. And as much as I hate to see the process be drawn out over several rounds of sales, that's the best way to maximize the revenue.
    I agree you don't dump them all at once, but you need a set schedule where they will be up for auction. Have all properties listed at an "over the counter" price via MLS and city website and have a set schedule where they go up for auction as well.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    I think it's a better approach to examine where rehabs are going on (i.e. PB and East Kensington) and ramp up the sales in those areas where it's clear that private capital investment is increasing based on what is going on the ground in the private market. It won't hurt to release shells and vacant land since that only quickens the pace of redevelopment with those cheap properties coming online and a market of rehabbing that exists.

    That moves the goal posts as rehabbers swallow those properties up. For instance, say Kensington quickens up and the next area to see private market interest is Kensington & Somerset or perhaps even further north. PB and East Kensington have a huge asset (subway and the EL) which is making the rehabbing attractive to buyers and renters in the property market.

    The biggest developments going on in EK right now are right up against the EL itself, within a few blocks of the stations. Go out and look how fast Norris Street is changing. Why not start that process along some of the other EL stations up to Harrowgate? Norris Square Civic is making the claim that they are having to defend against gentrification, which is a clear indicator that the interest is there and the private market WANTS to improve the neighborhoods and capitalize on those improvements. That's a positive cycle, not a negative one.

    We have some megalots here in Kensington that are owned by PHA. PHA should release those properties now, rather than later.
    Scenarios like that are where the city can't get too hung up on maximizing revenue per property and should consider the less quantifiable benefits of redevelopment. It may indeed be better to package those megalots to make a larger scale development more feasible. They may not make as much money on the sale of the lots, but the spillover benefits of quickly redeveloping these areas should easily outweigh that even in the medium term. More residents will move into the city paying sales tax, wage taxes, property taxes, etc.

    In the end, even though some strategy should be involved in how many properties are sold and at what time interval, I'd still err toward more sold and sooner. I'd rather have the market determine the highest, best use than have politicians picking winners.

    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I agree you don't dump them all at once, but you need a set schedule where they will be up for auction. Have all properties listed at an "over the counter" price via MLS and city website and have a set schedule where they go up for auction as well.
    Agreed. Hopefully the single point of contact “Front Door” for acquisition of city properties provides some transparency to this effect, because it doesn't seem like it will do a whole lot more.

  16. #36
    billy ross is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Scenarios like that are where the city can't get too hung up on maximizing revenue per property and should consider the less quantifiable benefits of redevelopment. It may indeed be better to package those megalots to make a larger scale development more feasible. They may not make as much money on the sale of the lots, but the spillover benefits of quickly redeveloping these areas should easily outweigh that even in the medium term. More residents will move into the city paying sales tax, wage taxes, property taxes, etc.

    In the end, even though some strategy should be involved in how many properties are sold and at what time interval, I'd still err toward more sold and sooner. I'd rather have the market determine the highest, best use than have politicians picking winners.



    Agreed. Hopefully the single point of contact “Front Door” for acquisition of city properties provides some transparency to this effect, because it doesn't seem like it will do a whole lot more.
    I question your assumption that parcel assembly into megalots would cause the properties to redevelop more quickly. To be more direct, it is incorrect. Templetown has regenerated more quickly than anyone would have imagined. The invisible hand of the market working through very many small transactions is how things get done quickly. Can you say Penn's Landing? That is a very large-scale non-development. De-scalability is huge. A developer can build one house and be done with it. There is little risk involved. Multiply that by 1,000 and you've got 1,000 new houses built lickety-split, that is, Templetown or Northern Liberties (in a somewhat larger scale model, but still very much broken up into manageable chunks). A mega-development requires that all 1,000 houses be built or else the developer goes broke. Thus they take forever to get off the ground. While large developments can be phased, nothing is easier to phase than one off stuff. There is very little risk in developing little lots one at a time versus a behemoth like Penn's Landing where you spend years planning only to realize too late that you were just jerking yourself off. Meanwhile Templetown is a fait accompli while you were making all of your grand plans for naught.

    Why do you think we have so many vacant lots? The first thing you do when doing new development is demolition, but oftentimes that's the only thing you do, especially if you're incompetent. If the Divine Lorraine were somehow phaseable it would have already been developed by now.
    Last edited by billy ross; 04-18-2012 at 08:40 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    I question your assumption that parcel assembly into megalots would cause the properties to redevelop more quickly. To be more direct, it is incorrect. Templetown has regenerated more quickly than anyone would have imagined. The invisible hand of the market working through very many small transactions is how things get done quickly. Can you say Penn's Landing? That is a very large-scale non-development. De-scalability is huge. A developer can build one house and be done with it. There is little risk involved. Multiply that by 1,000 and you've got 1,000 new houses built lickety-split, that is, Templetown or Northern Liberties (in a somewhat larger scale model, but still very much broken up into manageable chunks). A mega-development requires that all 1,000 houses be built or else the developer goes broke. Thus they take forever to get off the ground. While large developments can be phased, nothing is easier to phase than one off stuff. There is very little risk in developing little lots one at a time versus a behemoth like Penn's Landing where you spend years planning only to realize too late that you were just jerking yourself off. Meanwhile Templetown is a fait accompli while you were making all of your grand plans for naught.

    Why do you think we have so many vacant lots? The first thing you do when doing new development is demolition, but oftentimes that's the only thing you do, especially if you're incompetent. If the Divine Lorraine were somehow phaseable it would have already been developed by now.
    OHHH I agree wholeheartedly if one can not make a million bucks one does not want to make anything
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy ross View Post
    I question your assumption that parcel assembly into megalots would cause the properties to redevelop more quickly. To be more direct, it is incorrect. Templetown has regenerated more quickly than anyone would have imagined. The invisible hand of the market working through very many small transactions is how things get done quickly. Can you say Penn's Landing? That is a very large-scale non-development. De-scalability is huge. A developer can build one house and be done with it. There is little risk involved. Multiply that by 1,000 and you've got 1,000 new houses built lickety-split, that is, Templetown or Northern Liberties (in a somewhat larger scale model, but still very much broken up into manageable chunks). A mega-development requires that all 1,000 houses be built or else the developer goes broke. Thus they take forever to get off the ground. While large developments can be phased, nothing is easier to phase than one off stuff. There is very little risk in developing little lots one at a time versus a behemoth like Penn's Landing where you spend years planning only to realize too late that you were just jerking yourself off. Meanwhile Templetown is a fait accompli while you were making all of your grand plans for naught.

    Why do you think we have so many vacant lots? The first thing you do when doing new development is demolition, but oftentimes that's the only thing you do, especially if you're incompetent. If the Divine Lorraine were somehow phaseable it would have already been developed by now.
    I gave a fairly nuanced comment that favored the market determining the best use of the properties. I suggest you re-read it. Or maybe we're talking about two different things.

    There are no parcels capable of supporting the construction of 1,000 new houses, and no developers with that kind of appetite either. But 10, 15, 20 houses together? There are clear advantages for a single developer to tackle that, not the least of which are civil engineering factors and utility coordination.

  19. #39
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    Default Pha House's Being Flipped

    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Scenarios like that are where the city can't get too hung up on maximizing revenue per property and should consider the less quantifiable benefits of redevelopment. It may indeed be better to package those megalots to make a larger scale development more feasible. They may not make as much money on the sale of the lots, but the spillover benefits of quickly redeveloping these areas should easily outweigh that even in the medium term. More residents will move into the city paying sales tax, wage taxes, property taxes, etc.

    In the end, even though some strategy should be involved in how many properties are sold and at what time interval, I'd still err toward more sold and sooner. I'd rather have the market determine the highest, best use than have politicians picking winners.



    Agreed. Hopefully the single point of contact “Front Door” for acquisition of city properties provides some transparency to this effect, because it doesn't seem like it will do a whole lot more.
    I Have Another great idea
    Perhaps If They Increase The Amount Of Money They Reimburse From 50 % Over Prevailing Rents In The Neighborhood To 100 % Over Prevailing Rental's Paid By P H A That Would Help.
    Or
    other comment removed stated in another thread
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