The sad new Hilton at Arch Street and Twelfth

[eldondre]

And why does every building have to some form of a masterpiece. This is infill and really nothing more. That particular space is not screaming icon. The W will be better served where it will end up.

Philadelphia, PA - Google Maps


Honestly in 10 years this will just look like a street corner and the eye will still be drawn to the PSFS or RTM

it's one of the most heavily trafficked areas in the city so to me looks do matter. this isn't some wrong side of the convention center hotel, it's right next to the RTM. It would be one thing if this building were just average but it's actually pretty ugly, and on top of that it received an extremely large public subsidy. the "it's infill" is exactly the sort of lowest common denominator thinking that let this POS get approved so easily. acting like we're some desperate whore. this is a very high profile and desirable space.

[Titus]

And why does every building have to some form of a masterpiece. This is infill and really nothing more. That particular space is not screaming icon. The W will be better served where it will end up.

Philadelphia, PA - Google Maps


Honestly in 10 years this will just look like a street corner and the eye will still be drawn to the PSFS or RTM

It doesn't have to be a masterpiece - it ought to be a decent piece of architecture because it's in a prominent location downtown, not on a back street in Camden.

[Cro Burnham]

Neurons in everyone's head dissolves each time you speak.

well then you, at least, can rest assured your mental functioning will not change in the slightest!

[Cro Burnham]

Reading Cro Bumhurt and Sandy Smith talk about some artificial myth of Quakerism makes me laugh. You're talking about a city in the 1800's that started to name streets after people and planned to build the tallest building in the world. Very un-Quaker. Its all a myth or at least since William Penn died in England in the 1700's as a member of the Anglican church.

Why do these hispanic and asian people have to be the ones to erase this quaker cloud which doesn't exist? Why can't whites and blacks do that too? You think with the loads of hipsters and African/West Indies immigrants moving here they would/will destroy this myth as well.

Anytime anyone anywhere moves somewhere they come with an entrepreneurial spirit. Philly to NYC, NYC to Philly, Europe to USA, blah blah blah.

Cro, those view cities you mentioned that have built "only" impressive structures in the modern era have higher property values. Plus you are absolutely wrong in thinking any of those cities you mentioned don't have a bunch of post-war junk in high profile spots as well. You blast Bacon yet forget about Moses destruction in NYC. Bacon was one of the only American city planners that focused on INCREASING population in the CBD.

I'd know I'm a transplant and all but anytime I talk to anyone under the age of 45 about Philly back home they typically shower praise. Get your mythical Quaker brain of your noggin' and free your mind.

Quakers were mostly Anglicans who rebelled against the system by becoming Quakers. They made money and all converted back as members of the Church of England so they could spend the money THEY WORKED HARD FOR unlike what idiots like Baltzell thought.

Peace yo!

i agree with most of what you wrote. i am also under 45. you probably thought i was either over 80 or under 15.

i never read baltzell, so i can't speak to it directly, but i do believe in the "founders' effect" to a degree.

ed bacon's saving grace is society hill. it was a stroke of genius in contrast to his other largely moses-like awful ideas. in that sense, he was just another unremarkable man of the times with very conventional thinking. society hill is an amzing success, but only one of many otherwise failed concepts.

while i haven't read baltzell, and i am skeptical as the next guy with respect to deterministic explanations like his, philly is, overall, an aesthetically and culturally less sophisticated city than most of its peer cities. i believe in large part this has to do with the fact that we are dominated by parochially-minded natives, be they white or black, with serious case of insularity. years ago, i met a south asian torontonian who came to philly for school. his impression of the city, in comparison to toronto, was that it was like "a big village". i hate saying it, but it's kind of true. this has a good side and a bad side. the good side is that philly can be more personable than other large cities. the bad side is that this engenders a fear of more cosmopolitan attitudes and decent aesthetics. this is why so many philadelphians cling to hackneyed fauxgeorgian row house designs and our leaders subsidize schlock like the home2suites in such an important location.

immigration from wherever: africa, europe, nyc, south asia, china, boston, la, chicago, brazil - will be the best antidote to our parochialism and acceptance (too often open embrace) of dull, anachronistic, characterless lack of vision.

[Cro Burnham]

Honestly in 10 years this will just look like a street corner and the eye will still be drawn to the PSFS or RTM

What you say is true. But I think you have to consider the opportunity costs involved here, on multiple levels.

First, it will look like just another street corner. However, before this junk was put up, it retained the potential to be alot more for when/if a more dynamic opportunity presented itself. This requires patience when we all like to see development happen sooner rather than later. Sometimes a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. But in this case, waiting would have been a better option for everyone but Zuritsky.

He acquired the property from the RDA some time ago, as I understand it, so it's his do with as he sees fit. I just don't see why we had to subsidize his visionless project. He should have been able to get this done by himself. If he couldn't, then the argument that the market demanded and warranted such an ugly foam crate has no basis.

Second, my understanding is that $8 million of state RACP grant money went into this. RACP funds are not at all endless and are tightly controlled, even if they are doled out somewhat haphazardly (the public benefit standards of the program are a bit flexible, naturally, as they are for all politically-oriented slush funds). That's actually quite a large shot for RACP, especially for such a modest project. Could not that funding have been far more effectively used to leverage a better designed, more critically needed project elsewhere in Center City? I am absolutely sure of it.

So while what you say is accurate, 1) it did not need to be so, and 2) this deal resulted in a lost opportunity for a better project elsewhere.

The bottom line is that this building represents a wasted opportunity of one kind or another. And visionless politicians assured that this would be so. That is why it is so frustrating.

[fiveomar]

Posted a Yelp review for this hotel; feel free to add your own:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/home2-suites...n-philadelphia

I will be adding a TripAdvisor review as well, once it's on there.

Hopefully Hilton gets the message, and takes user feedback into consideration when building future hotels in Philly. Or perhaps they spruce up this hotel's exterior to make it look slightly less horrid.

[eldondre]

In ten years well still be paying for this garbage. $8 million is about a third of the projects cost. Its everything thats wrong about Philly. Rda sells property to politically connected developer, developer waita for absurd handout, builds garbage, laughs all the way to the bank. If you need to subsidize low cost projects in prime areas theres a much larger problem.

[Titus]

Exactly right, El.

[MNG1324]

The subsidy pays for high cost of union labor, who in turn give money to polticians, who in turn give desirable land to poltically connected deveolper, who also gives money to politicans. That is the worst kind of recycling I've ever seen.

[NickFromGtown]

Posted a Yelp review for this hotel; feel free to add your own:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/home2-suites...n-philadelphia

I will be adding a TripAdvisor review as well, once it's on there.

Hopefully Hilton gets the message, and takes user feedback into consideration when building future hotels in Philly. Or perhaps they spruce up this hotel's exterior to make it look slightly less horrid.

Do you realize how ridiculous and wrong it is to do this? There is nothing wrong with this building, let alone a reason to try to bomb their reviews so people don't give them business. It's not a monument to architecture, but it's not horrific either. Skewing reviews for this hotel without even patronizing it is so petty, it's actually rather pathetic.

This situation is like Chelten Plaza in Germantown. While the process may have been wrong and the reviews probably ultimately won't matter, this building has been built. We need it to succeed. The money has been spent and trying to torpedo it will just hurt the surrounding area.

[eldondre]

the hotel's success is irrevelant and the building is horrific. a child could do better. really, there's nothing we can do about this inexcusable injustice that is basically legal theft. it's really no different tha the pete tax.

[kidphilly]

Do you realize how ridiculous and wrong it is to do this? There is nothing wrong with this building, let alone a reason to try to bomb their reviews so people don't give them business. It's not a monument to architecture, but it's not horrific either. Skewing reviews for this hotel without even patronizing it is so petty, it's actually rather pathetic.

This situation is like Chelten Plaza in Germantown. While the process may have been wrong and the reviews probably ultimately won't matter, this building has been built. We need it to succeed. The money has been spent and trying to torpedo it will just hurt the surrounding area.

Agree. If the price, location, rooms etc are all worth the price than that is really the best need for any patron

On architectural or tax or whatever that isnt related to the quality of stay.

If someone wants an architectural gem they can payy 3 bills at the Monaco

[OffenseTaken]

Do you realize how ridiculous and wrong it is to do this? There is nothing wrong with this building, let alone a reason to try to bomb their reviews so people don't give them business. It's not a monument to architecture, but it's not horrific either. Skewing reviews for this hotel without even patronizing it is so petty, it's actually rather pathetic.

I applaud fiveomar's intention, but I do think it's counterproductive. A few nasty Yelp reviews won't change anything, particularly when it doesn't open for another 9 months. And it's not like they're going to tear it down and rebuild it, anyway.

If you want better design standards in CC, it's much more complicated than just saying so loudly. This city has to put itself in a competitive enough position that it can make those demands if it so chooses. It's not in that position: the only bargaining chip it had in this case was the $8 million bribe to defray the otherwise-prohibitively high labor costs. Had it not played that chip, the SW corner of 12th and Arch would still be a parking lot right now.

It's a ridiculously good spot for a hotel. It should be so profitable that Hilton would have happily complied with more stringent design conditions. The fact that that can't happen is a problem we should be taking up with City Hall.

[raider.adam]

I applaud fiveomar's intention, but I do think it's counterproductive. A few nasty Yelp reviews won't change anything, particularly when it doesn't open for another 9 months. And what are you going to do, convince Hilton to rebuild the damn thing?

If you want better design standards in CC, it's much more complicated than just saying so loudly. This city has to put itself in a competitive enough position that it can make those demands if it so chooses. It's not in that position: the only bargaining chip it had in this case was the $8 million bribe to defray the otherwise-prohibitively high labor costs. Had it not played that chip, the SW corner of 12th and Arch would still be a parking lot right now.

It's a ridiculously good spot for a hotel. It should be so profitable that Hilton would have happily complied with more stringent design conditions. The fact that that can't happen is a problem we should be taking up with City Hall.

It should be so profitable they shouldn't need $8 million either.

As I mentioned to eldondre the other night, whenever there are projects like this, it should be incremented to the cost of the Convention Center, because frankly, if dumping $796 million into it still requires an $8 million subsidy to build a hotel, then I say that is $804 million that we have paid for the convention center.

[NickFromGtown]

the hotel's success is irrevelant and the building is horrific. a child could do better. really, there's nothing we can do about this inexcusable injustice that is basically legal theft. it's really no different tha the pete tax.

The only reason I brought up the hotel's success is because people now think it's okay to review the hotel's architecture on its Yelp page. Yelp concerns the business. The building's design SHOULD have been addressed months/years ago in community meetings and critiques should be left for blogs, magazines, and newspaper articles.

I have pretty high standards when it comes to architecture and design. Especially considering how obscured the view of this building is in its non-prominent location, the only logical explanation of the dramatic nature of these posts is that they seem to be snowballing off of each other. The new Family Court building is a lot more bland and in a more prominent location. And don't get me started on the State Office building which somehow became certified on the National Register of Historic Places.

The building is being built. A business will move in. As someone else said, if there are things you don't like about the process for how it got built, make sure it doesn't happen again. Short of moving the business out and tearing the building down, little can be done with this building now.

[thoth]

The fact that that can't happen is a problem we should be taking up with City Hall.

To be fair, this cash came from the state courtesy of my main man Dwight Evans. Not that city hall doesn't love crap like this, but the state is culpable too.

[OffenseTaken]

To be fair, this cash came from the state courtesy of my main man Dwight Evans. Not that city hall doesn't love crap like this, but the state is culpable too.

Of course. And this is exactly the kind of thing that makes the rest of the state hate Philadelphia. It looks from their perspective like the city is being rewarded for not having its **** together, and it's hard to dispute that conclusion.

[OffenseTaken]

...

[Cro Burnham]

Of course. And this is exactly the kind of thing that makes the rest of the state hate Philadelphia.

i agree with u, but the rural areas get their share of ridiculous pork. i'm thinking mainly through road projects.

just because they're republican (as you know well) doesn't mean they don't waste tons of public money on largely useless things to benefit insiders.

i get mad about this not because it makes rural folks hate us more - this city could be perfect and they'll still always hate us - i get mad because we miss so many opportunities to make the city better due to myopic parochialism, greed, and lack of creative thinking.

other than 1701 rittenhouse, these words pretty much sum up every project zuritsky has undertaken in center city. ironically, 1701 is one of the very few that didn't benefit from public subsidy.

[thoth]

other than 1701 rittenhouse, these words pretty much sum up every project zuritsky has undertaken in center city. ironically, 1701 is one of the very few that didn't benefit from public subsidy.

Yeah cause condos in a prime location for condos = no subsidy everything is cool, but hotel in a prime hotel location = OMG WE NEED SUBSIDIES CITY COSTS ARE KILLING US! Guy is such a poon.