The sad new Hilton at Arch Street and Twelfth

[daveydoo]

I do think there should be minimum design standards for center city buildings receiving large public subsidies. The number one standard should be: no exterior insulated finishing system (i.e., EIFS, or "Dryvit"), the concrete sprayed styrofoam panel system of the Hyatt at Penn's Landing, the Hilton Garden in, the Hampton Inn, and then this new cube of aerated sh|t. Ironically, all of them received large public subsidies (as did Zuritsky's slightly less hideous parking garage next door). My guess is also that the latter three at least are among the more profitable hotels downtown largely because of how relatively cheap they were to build.

Actually, I think the buildings with EIFS should be banned from Center City, period. Imagine a city like London or Paris permitting buildings with this crap in their historic cores. I've never seen an EIFS building in Paris. If anyone can show me a large prominent EIFS structure in downtown Boston or SF, I'll be surprised. The decision makers in those places seem to have a sophistication, pride, and vision that ours lack almost totally. Greenberger is probably the one refreshing exception to this general unfortunate state of affairs.

I assume you mean no use of these materials on facades which face the main streets. In this case I could probably handle these materials on the sides facing the alley streets. It's important to remember that even way back when architects saved their artistry for the streets and not the back. Look at the Wainwright and Guaranty buildings by Louis Sullivan for instance, and you'll notice that the two sides not facing their respective streets were clad in unadorned brick and nothing more.

[MarketStEl]

Marriott Courtyard Fisherman's Wharf



The photo doesn't quite do justice to the full ugliness of the building, but it's got an EIFS exterior. There's a concrete exterior Comfort Inn a few blocks away that's far more butt ugly. Mid-priced hotels don't come with good architecture.

Well, this building attempts to redeem itself in two ways:

1) its facade attempts to recall San Francisco bay-windowed house fronts as found on the "painted ladies"

2) it has an In-n-Out Burger in it.

2) more successful than 1).

[Lakey]

Well, this building attempts to redeem itself in two ways:

1) its facade attempts to recall San Francisco bay-windowed house fronts as found on the "painted ladies"

2) it has an In-n-Out Burger in it.

2) more successful than 1).

I agree with you about #2. It's the main redeeming quality of that hotel. What you can't see in the photo is that there are curb cuts at the mid portion of the front of the building for cars to pull up to the lobby. I can only imagine the how many pages of ranting would ensue if the Home2 had curb cuts including the obligatory, "You'd never see a hotel do that in San Francisco, New York, Paris ..."

[thoth]

I agree with you about #2. It's the main redeeming quality of that hotel. What you can't see in the photo is that there are curb cuts at the mid portion of the front of the building for cars to pull up to the lobby. I can only imagine the how many pages of ranting would ensue if the Home2 had curb cuts including the obligatory, "You'd never see a hotel do that in San Francisco, New York, Paris ..."

Developers with crappy building proposals in philly should just start tacking on In and Out Burgers to their plans.

"This is a 1000 foot tall windowless cement box with 16 street level garage bays and curb cuts on each sidewalk facing wall, a 30 foot grass setback and rooftop LED billboard. Perfect for Old City. Did I mention it will have an In and Out Burger?"

I'd vote for it.

[MarketStEl]

Developers with crappy building proposals in philly should just start tacking on In and Out Burgers to their plans.

"This is a 1000 foot tall windowless cement box with 16 street level garage bays and curb cuts on each sidewalk facing wall, a 30 foot grass setback and rooftop LED billboard. Perfect for Old City. Did I mention it will have an In and Out Burger?"

I'd vote for it.

So would I.

[Lakey]

Developers with crappy building proposals in philly should just start tacking on In and Out Burgers to their plans.

"This is a 1000 foot tall windowless cement box with 16 street level garage bays and curb cuts on each sidewalk facing wall, a 30 foot grass setback and rooftop LED billboard. Perfect for Old City. Did I mention it will have an In and Out Burger?"

I'd vote for it.

Brilliant. It's got my vote too.

[Bleeper]

Not getting the hate here. Yes the design is less than awe inspiring but you can't have $200 M projects popping up everywhere, they only come along every so often.

This will be a 100% improvement over that parking lot.The most important thing is to build a hotel that patrons will enjoy. Rooftop bar/pool would have been nice, nice community area within the hotel. And of course the ground level retail will be a fantastic addition the the convention area. A little buffer area from Market East.

[Hospitalitygirl]

Not getting the hate here. Yes the design is less than awe inspiring but you can't have $200 M projects popping up everywhere, they only come along every so often.

This will be a 100% improvement over that parking lot.The most important thing is to build a hotel that patrons will enjoy. Rooftop bar/pool would have been nice, nice community area within the hotel. And of course the ground level retail will be a fantastic addition the the convention area. A little buffer area from Market East.

Why a community area within the hotel?

[DCnPhilly]

Not getting the hate here. Yes the design is less than awe inspiring but you can't have $200 M projects popping up everywhere, they only come along every so often.

This will be a 100% improvement over that parking lot.The most important thing is to build a hotel that patrons will enjoy. Rooftop bar/pool would have been nice, nice community area within the hotel. And of course the ground level retail will be a fantastic addition the the convention area. A little buffer area from Market East.

I live a couple blocks from here. I think its great. I even like the new parking garage on Juniper. They're both badly needed infill. Of course I would have loved the W Hotel to have happened, but what can you do? I hope this kind of development starts popping up on the back side of the PCC. There are way too many Sl-EZ Parks around here.

I don't know about a community center. There's one in Chinatown. West of 11th and south of Vine there honestly isn't much community. The older folks and kids that would benefit from a community center use the resources in Chinatown. The rest of us are young(ish) professionals and hipsters.

[eldondre]

Not getting the hate here. Yes the design is less than awe inspiring but you can't have $200 M projects popping up everywhere, they only come along every so often.

This will be a 100% improvement over that parking lot.The most important thing is to build a hotel that patrons will enjoy. Rooftop bar/pool would have been nice, nice community area within the hotel. And of course the ground level retail will be a fantastic addition the the convention area. A little buffer area from Market East.

I don't see what's wrong to expect a little nicely done unsubsidized project in the immediate area of the states most expensive boondoggle, er, public project. Yes its nicer than a surface lot but thats mkt aiming very high with public money.

[Cro Burnham]

This is the Doubletree in downtown Boston:



Dunno if that is EIFS but it looks like pretty typical Hilton crap to me.

I think that's EIFS.

I guess the point of this and the SF one are that they are not exactly in prominent downtown areas. The Boston one looks like it is tucked away in that abysmal 60s era slash and burn urban redevelopment area around the Mass Gen Hospital - kind of like the "Franklintown" of Boston. EIFS is always offensive, just less so in places like that. The SF one is definitely far off the beaten path. And I'm fairly sure it did not receive millions in public subsidies.

12th & Arch, on the other hand, is one of the busiest tourist intersections in the city. Subsidizing a squat EIFS cube next to a squat subsidized EIFS 3d tetris block (the Garden Inn) is proof of the visionless, politicized process known by the misnomer "economic development" in Philadelphia. The same for Penn's Landing: the only/most prominent structure on Philadelphia's eternally underdeveloped waterfront is a magnificent, faux-deco Grey Poupon hued turd of EIFS. It murmurs in a typical low key Philadelphia way "welcome to historic Philadelphia, the only city in America in which the monumental achievements of the great leaders of the past could be so thoroughly negated by the banal torpor of the leaders of its present".

Joe Zuritsky is one of handful of developers that have most richly benefited from economic development subsidies in Philly over the last 15 - 20 years. But his work is perhaps the most pathetic aesthetically. His designs are like those of the Bart Blatstein of yore, just extended up 6 or seven more floors so that the ugliness is visible from greater distances. All hideous tan and pinkish concrete and EIFS slabs. The only project he did that I am aware of that is nice is 1701 Rittenhouse. But that did not receive special subsidies, and I believe Spannapieco was handling the design end there.

[Bleeper]

I don't see what's wrong to expect a little nicely done unsubsidized project in the immediate area of the states most expensive boondoggle, er, public project. Yes its nicer than a surface lot but thats mkt aiming very high with public money.

Expectations.

Doesnt nearly every development in Philadelphia need some type of subsidized handout? City development in this era appears more about making the developer/insiders some $$$ and keeping union construction workers employed. Not so much about making a great city.

Im not thrilled about this project either but the ground level energy will make for a better city than a vacant lot does.
I would have liked this project to have another 10 stories of residential to begin to add more local element to the area.

[BarryG]

I think that's EIFS.

I guess the point of this and the SF one are that they are not exactly in prominent downtown areas. The Boston one looks like it is tucked away in that abysmal 60s era slash and burn urban redevelopment area around the Mass Gen Hospital - kind of like the "Franklintown" of Boston. EIFS is always offensive, just less so in places like that. The SF one is definitely far off the beaten path.

The Doubletree in Boston it is downtown, on the same block as a couple theaters and a just a few blocks from the Commons and the W hotel. The Mariott in SF is right on Beach St by Fisherman's wharf, a major tourst destination. There is a tourist bus loading area right in front of the hotel. I'm not an expert on Boston or SF neighborhoods but I know that neither of these hotels are off the beaten path whatsoever. They are just cheap and ugly.

[billy ross]

You're completely ignoring the work of Paul Levy. Every era produces giants and pygmies. Don't get lost in a false sense of nostalgia.

My wife and I walked from the opera to Spring Garden along Broad Street late Friday, and it struck me how much Dillworth Plaza cuts off South Broad's energy from North Broad. Soon that won't be the case, and North Broad will fill in. Pure genius.

I think that's EIFS.

I guess the point of this and the SF one are that they are not exactly in prominent downtown areas. The Boston one looks like it is tucked away in that abysmal 60s era slash and burn urban redevelopment area around the Mass Gen Hospital - kind of like the "Franklintown" of Boston. EIFS is always offensive, just less so in places like that. The SF one is definitely far off the beaten path. And I'm fairly sure it did not receive millions in public subsidies.

12th & Arch, on the other hand, is one of the busiest tourist intersections in the city. Subsidizing a squat EIFS cube next to a squat subsidized EIFS 3d tetris block (the Garden Inn) is proof of the visionless, politicized process known by the misnomer "economic development" in Philadelphia. The same for Penn's Landing: the only/most prominent structure on Philadelphia's eternally underdeveloped waterfront is a magnificent, faux-deco Grey Poupon hued turd of EIFS. It murmurs in a typical low key Philadelphia way "welcome to historic Philadelphia, the only city in America in which the monumental achievements of the great leaders of the past could be so thoroughly negated by the banal torpor of the leaders of its present".

Joe Zuritsky is one of handful of developers that have most richly benefited from economic development subsidies in Philly over the last 15 - 20 years. But his work is perhaps the most pathetic aesthetically. His designs are like those of the Bart Blatstein of yore, just extended up 6 or seven more floors so that the ugliness is visible from greater distances. All hideous tan and pinkish concrete and EIFS slabs. The only project he did that I am aware of that is nice is 1701 Rittenhouse. But that did not receive special subsidies, and I believe Spannapieco was handling the design end there.

[eldondre]

Genius might be a stretch but its an intelligent strategy. It wont connect the dots completely..you still have the msb wall of homeless and maloumians billboard of blight but city hall is integral in connecting north and south. You should be able to walk through the courtyard much later into the evening and the city needs to activate the courtyard. Its certainly more intelligent than the PVC expansion which seems to have an.insatiable appetite for subsidies.

[raider.adam]

Expectations.

Doesnt nearly every development in Philadelphia need some type of subsidized handout? City development in this era appears more about making the developer/insiders some $$$ and keeping union construction workers employed. Not so much about making a great city.

Im not thrilled about this project either but the ground level energy will make for a better city than a vacant lot does.
I would have liked this project to have another 10 stories of residential to begin to add more local element to the area.

No, every development doesn't need a handout.

[OffenseTaken]

Doesnt nearly every development in Philadelphia need some type of subsidized handout?

nope

[Malloy]

I like the idea of a Home2 in CC, I think it will do quite well. They are pet friendly too, which is interesting.

[Cro Burnham]

You're completely ignoring the work of Paul Levy. Every era produces giants and pygmies. Don't get lost in a false sense of nostalgia.

I'm with you. Paul Levy is great. Alan Greenberger is too. Bill Hankowsky accomplished some good stuff, and Rendell definitely facilitated lots of things.

It's really difficult, however, to name a city "leader" from the past many many decades whose legacy is net positive in terms of urban development. I know some people will say Ed Bacon, but he made unfathomably monumental mistakes. Frank Furness and Paul Cret made systemic positive impacts on the city. Definitely not Venturi. Louis Kahn did great stuff, just not here unfortunately. But there are no Frederick Olmstead, Louis Sullivan, Daniel Burnham equivalents of Philadelphia in the last 150 years.

This is a city that has attained whatever level of beauty it has in spite of its political elite. Lone actors, like John Wanamaker or whoever was running PSFS in 1930, accomplished wonderful things. But these were random occurrences of luck not in any way facilitated by cohesive efforts by political leaders to create a great city. Our planning and development leaders have largely been well-intentioned screw ups at best, otherwise sleepy dimwits, total fools or outright scumbags. For example, anyone remember Auspitz at the zoning board unilaterally demanding, and extolling the beauty of, PVC estate fencing as if it were the key to design nirvana? This guy, who ran a deli and had no business being in urban planning, amazingly was able to make a fairly large and pretty unfortunate impact on the aesthetics of this city.

But I have no false sense of nostalgia about civic leadership in this city - there hasn't really been any unless you're talking about people like Benjamin Franklin, Nicholas Biddle, or Stephen Girard. Rather, I have nostalgia for the vision evident in past leaders of peer cities like Boston, NYC, San Francisco, and Chicago. All of these cities broadly adopted and maintain traditions of better design and aesthetics than Philadelphia. Our civic leaders' idea of good design has basically been drab or cutesy schlock like Penn's Landing, Franklin Towne, Franklin Court, Independence Mall. Generally a total lack of aesthetic sense, which explains why we subsidize Joe Zuritsky's McParking and McHotels.

[raider.adam]

This is a city that has attained whatever level of beauty it has in spite of its political elite. Lone actors, like John Wanamaker or whoever was running PSFS in 1930, accomplished wonderful things. But these were random occurrences of luck not in any way facilitated by cohesive efforts by political leaders to create a great city. Our planning and development leaders have largely been well-intentioned screw ups at best, otherwise sleepy dimwits, total fools or outright scumbags. For example, anyone remember Auspitz at the zoning board unilaterally demanding, and extolling the beauty of, PVC estate fencing as if it were the key to design nirvana? This guy, who ran a deli and had no business being in urban planning, amazingly was able to make a fairly large and pretty unfortunate impact on the aesthetics of this city.

But I have no false sense of nostalgia about civic leadership in this city - there hasn't really been any unless you're talking about people like Benjamin Franklin, Nicholas Biddle, or Stephen Girard. Rather, I have nostalgia for the vision evident in past leaders of peer cities like Boston, NYC, San Francisco, and Chicago. All of these cities broadly adopted and maintain traditions of better design and aesthetics than Philadelphia. Our civic leaders' idea of good design has basically been drab or cutesy schlock like Penn's Landing, Franklin Towne, Franklin Court, Independence Mall. Generally a total lack of aesthetic sense, which explains why we subsidize Joe Zuritsky's McParking and McHotels.

Maybe people need to learn that urban design isn't created dictatorially, but organically by multiple players and trends.

You setup the rules and then let things grow. You don't need to micromanage it all nor do you need every wannabe architect or senior citizen or elected official get to dictate what a building or a space looks like.