Status on Broad Street Lights?

[thoth]

So what happens when a car hits one of these things?

[DCnPhilly]

So what happens when a car hits one of these things?

I assume the same thing that would happen anytime an idiot runs down a piece of public property. They lose some points on their license and their insurance company pays for the damage.

[thoth]

I assume the same thing that would happen anytime an idiot runs down a piece of public property. They lose some points on their license and their insurance company pays for the damage.

Ehhh, I meant more what happens if a car knocks over a 55 foot steel cylinder planted in the middle of broad st

[DCnPhilly]

Ehhh, I meant more what happens if a car knocks over a 55 foot steel cylinder planted in the middle of broad st

Ha. I know. Last weekend a bus got itself stuck up on a Jersey barrier outside Reading Terminal Market and shut down traffic for a long time.

If someone knocked over one of these things, my guess is the city would draft an executive order, get it approved by any neighborhood organizations that think they should be consulted on the decision to remove the obstruction, accept bids from unions, wait for their strike to end, get the historical society's input, then film an Always Sunny episode about it. God knows we couldn't just roll it to the side of the street.

See, this is why we can't have nice things.

[thoth]

Ha. I know. Last weekend a bus got itself stuck up on a Jersey barrier outside Reading Terminal Market and shut down traffic for a long time.

If someone knocked over one of these things, my guess is the city would draft an executive order, get it approved by any neighborhood organizations that think they should be consulted on the decision to remove the obstruction, accept bids from unions, wait for their strike to end, get the historical society's input, then film an Always Sunny episode about it. God knows we couldn't just roll it to the side of the street.

See, this is why we can't have nice things.

I'm wondering if they're gonna be "break away", like street lights. If a building or person got squished by one of these things after an impact, holy hell, just imagine the lawsuits.

[DCnPhilly]

I'm wondering if they're gonna be "break away", like street lights. If a building or person got squished by one of these things after an impact, holy hell, just imagine the lawsuits.

I'm sure they're the product of thorough R&D, at least I hope. I'm more afraid of the 100 year old tunnels under North Broad Street than what's above it.

[OffenseTaken]

Unfortunately, this is the way they decide to do it. What a stupid, stupid concept. It boggles the mind the ways Philadelphia is able to screw up simple ideas.

*******!!! I ****ing hate it when we agree like this.

[OffenseTaken]

If it's grant money or stimulus funds earmarked for something like this, it's difficult for us to dictate where it goes. We really just have to take it or leave it. Every improvement is going to have a number of people who think the money is better spent elsewhere, and Philadelphia is no stranger to negative opinion. I've even heard people complain about money spent on park improvements. It seems anything that isn't entirely pragmatic is going to get blasted by one group or another.

AAI, Inc. is said to be a not-for-profit operating independently of the City of Philadelphia. It's hard to imagine that none of the $50 million came from public coffers, though.

Having said that, we can still express curiosity as to why they would blow so much money on a project like this. We can go back and forth forever about how pleasing it is to the eye—not everyone agrees that it's eye-burningly hideous.

But safer bets could have been made with that money, for bigger returns, and that we should be able to say with a lot less controversy. If they wanted to beautify Broad, why not put the $50 million toward the construction of a true median in the middle of the street, with retaining walls at least a yard high & made of a decent material, and landscaping planted in it? This would have made Broad immensely safer and more pleasant to drive and walk on. This prison from outer space **** doesn't accomplish any of those things.

[DCnPhilly]

*******!!! I ****ing hate it when we agree like this.

I don't know why this is such a point of contention. They aren't as amazing as Spam, but they certainly aren't mindbogglingly screwed up.

[DCnPhilly]

If they wanted to beautify Broad, why not put the $50 million toward the construction of a true median in the middle of the street, with retaining walls at least a yard high & made of a decent material, and landscaping planted in it?

I'll agree with you 100% on this one.

[OffenseTaken]

I don't know why this is such a point of contention. They aren't as amazing as Spam, but they certainly aren't mindbogglingly screwed up.

The light towers themselves aren't screwed up: what is screwed up is the bold assertion that they're what North Broad needs, as if this were self-evident. Every one of those bigwigs giving speeches in the video should have taken a Bolt bus up and down the East Coast, to get a sense of what works and what doesn't. Instead they just pull this out of their asses and call it a silver bullet.

[DCnPhilly]

The light towers themselves aren't screwed up: what is screwed up is the bold assertion that they're what North Broad needs, as if this were self-evident. Every one of those bigwigs giving speeches in the video should have taken a Bolt bus up and down the East Coast, to get a sense of what works and what doesn't. Instead they just pull this out of their asses and call it a silver bullet.

These lights will never been what North Broad needs even if North Broad was our very own Miracle Mile. Anything solely aesthetic is an enhancement not a necessity. That's where this fails, at least north of Spring Garden, the same way the towers at Broad and Washington fail when you face north. There is nothing for them to enhance.

Sometimes these wealthy philanthropists get a little carried away when money starts burning a hole in their pockets. I'm not sure who pitched this idea to the AAI, but I have a feeling the pitch was more creative than what we're physically looking at. Still, I'm not going to turn down a steak from Del Frisco's just because I had a hankering for Arby's.

[randomuser]

Broad Street already has fine lighting, this project has nothing to do with getting the street lit. It's about landscaping or beautification or whatever you want to call. Keeping streetlights lit is something I think the city does pretty well in general, btw.

Not sure how much this will do for Broad St.. those expensive sculpture things at Broad & Washington, supposed to act as some kind of "gateway" to the Ave of the Arts, haven't done jack **** as Broad Street south of Lombard has seen basically no investment, though the apartments at Broad & South are a start, as is the Boot & Saddle project... but there is still as massive amount of underutilized land on S. Broad. Anything times zero is still zero.

That said this segment of North Broad is seeing investment so this could be a real multiplier there. $50 million seems like a lot, these better be really cool.

Maybe on major thoroughfares but there are neighborhoods that even their more major streets aren't as well-lit as they should be. Things like the El or the highways and other overhead structures don't help either.

I think I'm the only one who likes those towers at Broad and Washington. Unfortunately those are the kind of installations that enhance what is already there, not attract new business. I can't say why Broad and Washington is dead, but anyone who thought installing a "gateway" was going to bring on the developers was a little short sighted. They would make more sense if there was more density from Washington to South. They'd make more sense at South Street.

$50M does seem like a lot. It seems pretty ambitious. I'm not sure why they wouldn't limit them to Spring Garden instead of going as far north as they appear to be going. Again, it's like that Broad and Washington gateway, it's not the kind of improvement that brings new development, it's the kind of enhances what's already there. So limit it to the densely developed portion of North Broad. When some fairy comes along and restores the Divine Lorraine and the Metropolitan Opera House, extend it.

Why does everything have to be about developers? Why can't it be about culture, about communities, about neighborhoods, about Philadelphia in general? This idea looks like yet another attempt to be a city that Philadelphia is not and shouldn't be. That's what ruined so much of the city in the first place. The ideals may be different but the process is the exact same thing.

*******!!! I ****ing hate it when we agree like this.

Then you're pretty damn immature. You don't see me saying that before agreeing with somebody who I've had a problem with over one thing or another on this board do you? No, because it doesn't matter who says something. It matters what is said, especially online. If you want to develop relationships with people from here and consider them friends or get along with them then that's cool but don't think everything needs to be personal. Me.. I'm not looking to do that and don't feel any need to. I make enough friends out in the real world and prefer to keep to myself online. Even if that weren't the case, I still wouldn't pay any mind to who said what. You can easily ignore who's saying what is being said. We're not in a class together, in a workspace together, or even in a party or other event together. You don't need to even look at the username next to my words.

[DCnPhilly]

Why does everything have to be about developers? Why can't it be about culture, about communities, about neighborhoods, about Philadelphia in general? This idea looks like yet another attempt to be a city that Philadelphia is not and shouldn't be. That's what ruined so much of the city in the first place. The ideals may be different but the process is the exact same thing ds.

I'm not sure what you mean about the process being the same. This isn't being developed by developers, is being built with Grant money earmarked for the art community. With regard to places like the Divine Lorraine and the Metropolitan, we have to rely on developers. This area wasn't ruined by developers, it was ruined by their absence. The city has limited resources to invest in communities so we rely on developers to make that investment (and ultimately residents who purchase the developed properties), and projects like this are theoretically designed to encourage that. I'll agree this project is short sighted in that respect, but the relationship between developers and communities is necessary.

[randomuser]

I'm not sure what you mean about the process being the same. This isn't being developed by developers, is being built with Grant money earmarked for the art community. With regard to places like the Divine Lorraine and the Metropolitan, we have to rely on developers. This area wasn't ruined by developers, it was ruined by their absence. The city has limited resources to invest in communities so we rely on developers to make that investment (and ultimately residents who purchase the developed properties), and projects like this are theoretically designed to encourage that. I'll agree this project is short sighted in that respect, but the relationship between developers and communities is necessary.

What I'm saying is that why do decisions have to be based on things like that? The fact is that if an area has character and culture and a unique identity all its own, it will be all the better for it when it eventually does see revitalization.

The city screwed up way too many neighborhoods and got rid of way too many things that were part of Philadelphia in order to get people who weren't a part of that to like it and want to be there or build there. One would hope that they would learn from their mistakes but they clearly haven't. Now, instead of bending over backwards for those wanting to leave the city, they're bending over backwards for those wanting to gentrify its neighborhoods or build in them.

When I look at that project, I don't see Paris or whatever they're trying to be. I see yet another dumb attempt to change a major part of a great city to be something it isn't.

[CHIOSSO]

What they would do is turn off the lights behind the clock faces at 8:59pm, and turn the lights back on at 9:00pm. This would give you a minute to set your watch, and synchronize the whole city. I think this Philadelphia nightly ritual is captured in one of the silent movie versions of George Kelly's play, THE SHOW-OFF.

CITY HALL,DIRECTORy 1902

.TO SECURE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT TIME

is a matter of considerable importance to a vast multitude of
citizens residing far distant from our great railroad centres.
The Bureau of City Property have endeavored to meet
this need by a unique and somewhat novel feature in con-
nection with the running and management of this great
time-piece. A plan has been adopted by which, once in
every twenty-four hours, correct time as shown by the
Tower clock is signaled to far-distant points. At three
minutes before nine o'clock each evening, the corona of arc
lamps encircling the Tower at the upper platform is extin-
guished, and again lighted at precisely nine o'clock.

When it is remembered that this corona of arc lamps can,
with a clear atmosphere, be distinguished from elevated
points distant twenty-five or thirty miles from the city, ap-
pearing like a delicate silver crescent suspended low against
the horizon, it will be understood that as this method of sig-
naling correct time becomes generally known, the suburban
citizen and even the country resident will come to appre-
ciate the luxury of being able to regulate his chronometer
to absolute correctness once in every twenty-four hours.


Full text of "City hall, Philadelphia. Directory of offices occupied, or allotted and in process of completion, with diagrams of the various floors, and other miscellaneous information pertaining to the building"

[DCnPhilly]

What I'm saying is that why do decisions have to be based on things like that? The fact is that if an area has character and culture and a unique identity all its own, it will be all the better for it when it eventually does see revitalization.

The city screwed up way too many neighborhoods and got rid of way too many things that were part of Philadelphia in order to get people who weren't a part of that to like it and want to be there or build there. One would hope that they would learn from their mistakes but they clearly haven't. Now, instead of bending over backwards for those wanting to leave the city, they're bending over backwards for those wanting to gentrify its neighborhoods or build in them.

When I look at that project, I don't see Paris or whatever they're trying to be. I see yet another dumb attempt to change a major part of a great city to be something it isn't.

Yep, I'll agree with you there. The city did a lot of stupid things to the city in the 50s and 60s in an effort to retain residents that actually pushed a lot out and marginalized those that stayed. The community that does exist on North Broad should be respected when considering and developments up there, whether public or private, and some artsy fartsy Avenue of the Arts extension just says that an elite minority wants to feel safe enough to live at the Divine Lorraine. Id love to see that corridor redeveloped simple because we're losing more and more history and architecture everyday that the DL and Met stay vacant or underused. I'm not pro-gentrification. I think those people prey on cheap real estate and look down on the communities they enter, even if they have all legal right to do so. Unfortunately that keeps the existing community skeptical and reluctant to work with new residents and the worst case scenario plays out and you wind up with another Piazza, which will probably happen around the DL.

[randomuser]

Yep, I'll agree with you there. The city did a lot of stupid things to the city in the 50s and 60s in an effort to retain residents that actually pushed a lot out and marginalized those that stayed. The community that does exist on North Broad should be respected when considering and developments up there, whether public or private, and some artsy fartsy Avenue of the Arts extension just says that an elite minority wants to feel safe enough to live at the Divine Lorraine. Id love to see that corridor redeveloped simple because we're losing more and more history and architecture everyday that the DL and Met stay vacant or underused. I'm not pro-gentrification. I think those people prey on cheap real estate and look down on the communities they enter, even if they have all legal right to do so. Unfortunately that keeps the existing community skeptical and reluctant to work with new residents and the worst case scenario plays out and you wind up with another Piazza, which will probably happen around the DL.

Exactly. In my opinion, the best part of the entire city is West and parts of Southwest. Why? Because so much of its character, of its architecture, and of everything else has been retained. North Philly still could be a semblance of that, even with everything that's been knocked down. There's still a lot of its original character and identity and even its architecture standing but more and more of it gets lost with each passing year and that's really a shame because it's second only to West Philly in a lot of ways. Destroying so much in order to do what the city thinks will attract people will only hurt the area's potential in the long run. Why haven't they learned that yet?