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  1. #1
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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    Default Grays Ferry: The New Frontier?

    Interesting and odd all at the same time

    Thoughts?

    Philly Shark: The Lower Schuylkill; Philly's Next Development Fronteir?

  2. #2
    scotchrocks's Avatar
    scotchrocks is offline Senior Member
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    Wake me when it happens! Seriously though, what's odd about it?
    "True freedom means being conscious and aware enough to choose what you pay attention to and to choose how you construct meaning from experience. ~David Foster Wallace

  3. #3
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotchrocks View Post
    Wake me when it happens! Seriously though, what's odd about it?
    Odd in relation to the first part of your statement; meaning doesnt seem realistic even if there are smart aspects to it

  4. #4
    3rd&Brown is offline Senior Member
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    I think it makes logical sense, actually.

    CHOP is concocting plans to make the jump across the river, already, and University City has powered the growth of Graduate Hospital, I'd argue, more than Center City.

    I think a series/network of new streets and parks could be laid out along the water, connecting to the Navy Yard. I've long thought this as I drive over the Platt Bridge and look up river.

    I think it could be akin to Bercy in Paris. Near everything but set apart like it's own distinct district. Embracing the river; new and modern, but in an old city.

  5. #5
    3rd&Brown is offline Senior Member
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    Oh, and overlay a KOZ and bam. You have instant development.

    I'm not saying that's what should happen. But it's a distinct possibility.

    Though, I'm not sure how the plans for Sunoco affect this. Is the assumption in the Lower Schuykill plan that Sunoco will indeed close? Because recent news reports suggest that's not the case.

  6. #6
    kidphilly is offline Senior Member
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    The plan also looked like it had light rail; would be good but then again dream and reality are often two different things

  7. #7
    thoth's Avatar
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    I don't think people from outside of West Philly realize how often people from Spruce Hill and Cedar Park use the GF bridge as a gateway to south philly. And yet the couple of blocks surrounding the bridge ramps on both sides are soooo underutilized it's crazy. Def moreso on the west side, but both are lagging.

    I think there's a lot of potential for that area, I see it being driven as much by robust growth on the UC side as spillover from CC.

  8. #8
    GroJLart is offline Senior Member
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    The map of the east side of the GF bridge ignores the fact that there's an entire little enclosed neighborhood just south of GF ave on the east side of the bridge. I guess people call it "Forgotten Bottom"? Perfectly good houses sitting there along with a small park and a closed-off ninety-plus-year-old pedestrian bridge.

    Everyday Ruins in Philadelphia: Reed Street Footbridge | NakedPhilly

    The Bartram's Garden map puts new stuff right next to Bartram Village, one of the worst public housing projects in the city.
    Last edited by GroJLart; 03-04-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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  9. #9
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    without a doubt the hospital complex is driving growth in graduate hospital since its the closest residential neighborhood...and driving some speculation in grays ferry. just over the 34th st bridge are thousands of jobs yet no bus service. unfortunately the only thing cut off from the rest of the city are the thousands of jobs
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
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  10. #10
    Naveen is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoth View Post
    I don't think people from outside of West Philly realize how often people from Spruce Hill and Cedar Park use the GF bridge as a gateway to south philly.
    When I lived in S. Philly, this was how I got into UC. Very convenient, and also very underutilized. I think a lot of people just don't want to drive through Gray's Ferry.

  11. #11
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    who owns the hidden hotel these days?
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  12. #12
    PortPennFerry is offline Senior Member
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    Having grown up in Grays Ferry, I can attest that it is, and has always been, a more liveable neighborhood than most of Point Breeze. But Point Breeze is being squeezed by gentrification in three directions- from East Passyunk to the east, Grad-Ho to the north, and Newbold to the south, while Grays Ferry's only link to gentrification is via Grays Ferry Ave- and while the stretch from South to Washington is gorgeous, the Grays Ferry proper stretch is abysmal. All it has are some trash-strewn lots, a strip mall, a meat processor whose smell wafts through the entire neighborhood, and an electric substation. Grays Ferry is further cut off from gentrification by the [active[ train trestle and the power plant. It is hemmed in by public housing on two sides, and section 8 rentals make up a great deal of residents. The combination of gentrification-killing factors is almost laughable.

    At the same time, house rehabs and new construction has popped up in the northeasternmost part of Grays Ferry. IF, and it is a big if, some creative developments could be constructed around the 25th and Washington nexus, and the meat processor moved, gentrification could leapfrog in earnest.

    It's also worth noting that Grays Ferry is made of distinct sections. It traditionally had two white parts and two black parts- but as the neighborhood got an awful reputation for its racism, many whites moved out and the black parts have eaten up much of the white parts- however, many whites remain around St. Gabe's and in the newest cul-de-sacs around New Hope (the latter is also an increasingly trendy place for 2nd generation Asian families). The whites parts still look like any block in Port Richmond or Bridesburg. I wonder what will happen though as blacks leave Point Breeze- will they move westward into Grays Ferry, or will they leapfrog, as many have done, into Southwest Philly?

    The Forgotten Bottom, cut off by the expressway, is a beast of its own. It has remained about as integrated as it has since 1990, and remained peaceful while Grays Ferry proper's whites and blacks were at each other's throats. Its biggest problems are noxious industrial uses- the Ride-the-Duck garage comes to mind. But there have been some rehabs, and I think the development of one big parcel could really jumpstart the area.

    watch the demographic changes on the census map-
    1990- Interactive map: 30 years of census data - The Washington Post
    2000- Interactive map: 30 years of census data - The Washington Post
    2010- http://wapo.st/IjuYrq
    Last edited by PortPennFerry; 05-01-2012 at 12:25 PM.

  13. #13
    thoth's Avatar
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    Pretty good read on things, thanks.

    It would seem that if rehabs have already begun in the NE, that would increase the chances of stabilization versus subsumption within a wave of displaced poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by PortPennFerry View Post
    Having grown up in Grays Ferry, I can attest that it is, and has always been, a more liveable neighborhood than most of Point Breeze. But Point Breeze is being squeezed by gentrification in three directions- from East Passyunk to the east, Grad-Ho to the north, and Newbold to the south, while Grays Ferry's only link to gentrification is via Grays Ferry Ave- and while the stretch from South to Washington is gorgeous, the Grays Ferry proper stretch is abysmal. All it has are some trash-strewn lots, a strip mall, a meat processor whose smell wafts through the entire neighborhood, and an electric substation. Grays Ferry is further cut off from gentrification by the [active[ train trestle and the power plant. It is hemmed in by public housing on two sides, and section 8 rentals make up a great deal of residents. The combination of gentrification-killing factors is almost laughable.

    At the same time, house rehabs and new construction has popped up in the northeasternmost part of Grays Ferry. IF, and it is a big if, some creative developments could be constructed around the 25th and Washington nexus, and the meat processor moved, gentrification could leapfrog in earnest.

    It's also worth noting that Grays Ferry is made of distinct sections. It traditionally had two white parts and two black parts- but as the neighborhood got an awful reputation for its racism, many whites moved out and the black parts have eaten up much of the white parts- however, many whites remain around St. Gabe's and in the newest cul-de-sacs around New Hope (the latter is also an increasingly trendy place for 2nd generation Asian families). The whites parts still look like any block in Port Richmond or Bridesburg. I wonder what will happen though as blacks leave Point Breeze- will they move westward into Grays Ferry, or will they leapfrog, as many have done, into Southwest Philly?

    The Forgotten Bottom, cut off by the expressway, is a beast of its own. It has remained about as integrated as it has since 1990, and remained peaceful while Grays Ferry proper's whites and blacks were at each other's throats. Its biggest problems are noxious industrial uses- the Ride-the-Duck garage comes to mind. But there have been some rehabs, and I think the development of one big parcel could really jumpstart the area.

    watch the demographic changes on the census map-
    1990- Interactive map: 30 years of census data - The Washington Post
    2000- Interactive map: 30 years of census data - The Washington Post
    2010-http://wapo.st/IjuYrq

  14. #14
    seand is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoth View Post
    I don't think people from outside of West Philly realize how often people from Spruce Hill and Cedar Park use the GF bridge as a gateway to south philly. And yet the couple of blocks surrounding the bridge ramps on both sides are soooo underutilized it's crazy. Def moreso on the west side, but both are lagging.

    I think there's a lot of potential for that area, I see it being driven as much by robust growth on the UC side as spillover from CC.
    This is true. This is my most common way to get to South Philly and southern Center City by far. I'm constantly crossing this bridge, constantly headed up Grays Ferry to Washington.

  15. #15
    thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    This is true. This is my most common way to get to South Philly and southern Center City by far. I'm constantly crossing this bridge, constantly headed up Grays Ferry to Washington.
    Constantly dodging crust punks and their dogs that crept out of the CSX yard to panhandle...

  16. #16
    seand is offline Senior Member
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    I find my attitude towards the crusty train hoppers pan handling has shifted since becoming a parent. Suddenly my thoughts go to what sane parent thinks that disagreeing with whatever stupid piece of foreign material they have stuck through their face is a good reason to be OK with your daughter opting for a train hopping life. I'm sure I won't be a "cool" parent but I'll be sure to point out that there are million ways to be into whatever thing designed for me not to understand without picking such a profoundly unfun seeming, sketchy and rape-risky lifestyle. And no matter how I as father don't understand what you are into, really there are better, less risky ways to be into them.

    Here's a question. Why does NOI only hawk the Final Call on the east bound lanes and the crusties only work the west bound lanes? Is it assumptions by both sets of people about who their percieved West Philly target audience is?

  17. #17
    fuzzycraig is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post

    Here's a question. Why does NOI only hawk the Final Call on the east bound lanes and the crusties only work the west bound lanes? Is it assumptions by both sets of people about who their percieved West Philly target audience is?
    That's a great question. Similarly, I have noticed that the guy selling books/music by the 46th Street El has a pretty ingenious set-up, where facing south toward Spruce Hill/Walnut Hill and the mosques, he has the Islam-themed books. And facing north, toward the projects, he has the Street Lit with the really great lurid covers. Coming from either direction you wouldn't know he was selling the stuff on the other side.

    Here's a question for you, Sean. Have you ever considered buying the crustpunks a bean pie? I guess you'd have to pull a U-Turn for that. OK, now back to your Grays Ferry gentrification thread.

  18. #18
    petefm is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoth View Post
    Constantly dodging crust punks and their dogs that crept out of the CSX yard to panhandle...
    I've always wondered why they're crawling all over that area. Didn't connect it with the train yard. Thanks!

    It does beg the question: For some reason you've decided to leave Portland or New Orleans and you choose a train yard in Philadelphia? Really? The size and beauty of this country and this is the best you can come up with? A train yard in Philadelphia?

  19. #19
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    hammersklavier is offline A Fortnight Dead
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    Traditionally hoboes and other indigents stow away on freight trains to travel.

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  20. #20
    PortPennFerry is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by petefm View Post
    I've always wondered why they're crawling all over that area. Didn't connect it with the train yard. Thanks!

    It does beg the question: For some reason you've decided to leave Portland or New Orleans and you choose a train yard in Philadelphia? Really? The size and beauty of this country and this is the best you can come up with? A train yard in Philadelphia?
    I think that the neighboring anarchist scene in West Philly is a huge draw for crusties on that corner as well- it's the closest busy but depopulated intersection by the Baltimore Ave. nexus of it all, and it's the path many of the more conventionally left-wing residents of West Philly take to and from their enchanted haven.

 

 

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