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  1. #1
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Default Why should Matt Rueben di

    why should he dictate style?
    But Ruben said whatever goes on the waterfront has to fit in with its surroundings, and something designed to bring “the retro glamour of 1950s Havana to the world,” as the website says, just doesn't do that.
    Mysterious flier and website woo investors for hotel that is news to city planners | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future
    don't know if he meant to, but he sounds like a little tyrant. I understand he might just be upset he wasn't consulted before the flyer went out, but I fail to see why 50's havana "doesn't fit in" if it's a nice project. there's nothing wrong with architectural diversity though some people like be be conformity nazis.
    Last edited by eldondre; 02-23-2012 at 04:18 PM.
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    TLP's Avatar
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    It's an issue throughout the entire zoning process as it currently stands: an excessive focus on aesthetics rather than the issues that should be up for public debate... density, use, etc.

  3. #3
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    mixiboi is offline Philly Remixed
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    I thought that said should die..lol.

    But I think he meant it doesn't fit in with the greater plan that soem have for that area, that Matt and some of the other Associations support(Hint it comes from the brainchild of UPenn)
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    seand is offline Senior Member
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    Its an awkward quote but I doubt he really cares if a properly zoned project has an interior decor scheme borrowed from Cuba Libre. I think what he probably meant to say is that the high-rise depicted (which looks absolutley nothing like 1950's retro moderne BTW) does not comply existing zoning codes.

    I'm as disappointed as the next guy when well thought projects from reputable, experienced developers get shot down for stupid reasons. The key things different between this project and that sentence however are "well thougt out", "reputable" and "experienced". Wanting development for Philadelphia does not mean jumping all over yourself for every self-aggrandizing blow hard with a bad rendering and bogus claims of previous experience.

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    Titus is offline Senior Member
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    1950's Havana?! WTF? This is Philadelphia!

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    raider.adam is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixiboi View Post
    But I think he meant it doesn't fit in with the greater plan that soem have for that area, that Matt and some of the other Associations support(Hint it comes from the brainchild of UPenn)
    Nah, I took it as he doesn't support the style. Meaning, he would be ok with a hotel and such as lot as he approves the aesthetics. I agree with eldondre and TLP. Too many people fight projects over style.

  7. #7
    raider.adam is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus View Post
    1950's Havana?! WTF? This is Philadelphia!
    Exactly. All new buildings should be colonial or look like cheesesteaks. All outside curb music should play either Eye of the Tiger or the Gamble and Huff catalog.

  8. #8
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    All outside curb music should play either Eye of the Tiger
    that would be awesome

    yeah, I don't get why people like rube and titus should have their personal tastes foisted on everyone else. what's wrong with old havana? would it be better if the project was 60's Philadelphia? hell no!
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    seand is offline Senior Member
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    Will they be staging daily reenactment battles between Batista's goons and the bearded revolutionaries every day in front of the hotel?

    In that case, they should throw up this hotel they never bothered to consult a single neighborhood association about and lied about previous buildings on there website about immediately.

    Its a stupid quote to be sure but I think you all are investing a little bit too much into it.

  10. #10
    seand is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    All new buildings should look like cheesesteaks.
    Although the melted cheese can get a little ripe on August afternoons. And attracts rats.

  11. #11
    raider.adam is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    Will they be staging daily reenactment battles between Batista's goons and the bearded revolutionaries every day in front of the hotel?

    In that case, they should throw up this hotel they never bothered to consult a single neighborhood association about and lied about previous buildings on there website about immediately.

    Its a stupid quote to be sure but I think you all are investing a little bit too much into it.
    I think there are just a bunch of pro-development people that are getting tired of people from civic groups always saying stuff like that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    Will they be staging daily reenactment battles between Batista's goons and the bearded revolutionaries every day in front of the hotel?

    In that case, they should throw up this hotel they never bothered to consult a single neighborhood association about and lied about previous buildings on there website about immediately.

    Its a stupid quote to be sure but I think you all are investing a little bit too much into it.
    My point, at least, is that with a ridiculous project like this (huge project with no specific address, massive tower on a parking pedestal where plans call for improving the pedestrian environment, claims of meetings with civics and city officials that don't hold water, and so on) criticizing the project on account of its aesthetics seems out of place.

    I blame our planning process (the system and the people involved) that is overly focused on aesthetics for that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLP View Post
    My point, at least, is that with a ridiculous project like this (huge project with no specific address, massive tower on a parking pedestal where plans call for improving the pedestrian environment, claims of meetings with civics and city officials that don't hold water, and so on) criticizing the project on account of its aesthetics seems out of place.
    ^this. The whole website and flyer smells like a big scam or, at best, a pie in the sky scheme by two guys with a concept, but no real experience executing projects of the proposed scale. The CEO is "a 27-year veteran of the hospitality and casino industries." As vague as that description is, he might just have had a very long career as a valet parking attendant.
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  14. #14
    gren's Avatar
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    Matt Reuben doesn't dictate style. Any power he has over style is given to him by the ZBA and the provisos they accept.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLP View Post
    It's an issue throughout the entire zoning process as it currently stands: an excessive focus on aesthetics rather than the issues that should be up for public debate... density, use, etc.
    Does it? I think neighborhood groups or probably more accurately, the neighbors who attend, focus on aesthetic issues. But the zoning code doesn't particularly discuss aesthetics or context. Aesthetics only play a part when the ZBA accepts provisos about aesthetic issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I think there are just a bunch of pro-development people that are getting tired of people from civic groups always saying stuff like that.
    Civic groups say a lot of things. The only ones that matter is what the ZBA will sign off on. Developers agree to provisos because they fear the ZBA fight or think provisos are the only way they can get the variance they want. I don't think anyone would be happy if we only stuck to the code and granted variances only to avoid unconstitutional takings. But if we're going to have a middle ground between no zoning and only legally necessary variances then you have to have input from somewhere.

  15. #15
    TLP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gren View Post
    Does it? I think neighborhood groups or probably more accurately, the neighbors who attend, focus on aesthetic issues. But the zoning code doesn't particularly discuss aesthetics or context. Aesthetics only play a part when the ZBA accepts provisos about aesthetic issues.
    When I say "the entire zoning process as it currently stands", I'm including the civic associations and even the neighbors who attend zoning meetings under that umbrella. The structure of the zoning process - complex code, ZBA issues refusals on proposed variances, meetings before the community to seek approval for the variances - encourages the focus on aesthetics by inviting input without making it clear what that input should be focused on.

    This isn't intentional or a neccessary consequence, of course, it's just how it plays out. And I'm not sure if there is even a structure that wouldn't lead to a focus on aesthetics rather than the zoning issues at hand. It's what people are interested in and can understand. Accessory uses, side and rear yards vs open area, minimum lot sizes... these ideas are all either obtuse or plain boring. What a project looks like and what it will bring to the area is what gets people excited, whether or not they should have a codified say in the matter.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    Nah, I took it as he doesn't support the style. Meaning, he would be ok with a hotel and such as lot as he approves the aesthetics. I agree with eldondre and TLP. Too many people fight projects over style.
    I agree, and it is totally unacceptable, you can't legislate for taste. Size, density, use, sure, but not taste. Hell, Farnese, whose buildings we now love, was despised by many in his day.

  17. #17
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    Will they be staging daily reenactment battles between Batista's goons and the bearded revolutionaries every day in front of the hotel?

    In that case, they should throw up this hotel they never bothered to consult a single neighborhood association about and lied about previous buildings on there website about immediately.

    Its a stupid quote to be sure but I think you all are investing a little bit too much into it.
    i suppose ruebe. is acting like hes a precastro mob king maker. if he was upset because his ring wasnt kissed he should have said so...he cones off as arrogant and offbase
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
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  18. #18
    Titus is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    Exactly. All new buildings should be colonial or look like cheesesteaks. All outside curb music should play either Eye of the Tiger or the Gamble and Huff catalog.
    Very funny, but really why not 1890's Paris or 1620's Saigon ? - Good Grief! architecture is meant to say something - something - about its context. I'm just appalled at the silliness of it.
    Last edited by Titus; 02-24-2012 at 10:00 AM. Reason: spelling

 

 

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