Black flight: Now it is the turn of America’s blacks to leave for the suburbs

[billy ross]

This gives you a sense of how truly diverse Philadelphia is:

The changing colour of cities: Black flight | The Economist

A way of life has passed, and it's sort of sad:

"“My clientele has all moved away,” says Charlene Williams, owner of De Charlene’s Beauty & Boutique in Seattle’s Central District. Her neighbourhood was 79% black when she set up shop in 1968. It was 58% black as recently as 1990. Now it is 21% black. Ms Williams once had 13 hairdressers on her payroll; now she employs none. The young Ray Charles once performed in black-owned nightclubs in the Central District. Those clubs are gone, as are the restaurants where Ms Williams used to buy pork-chop sandwiches and peach pie. Eateries now offer crepes, wood-fired artisan bagels and north-west fusion cuisine."

Philadelphia is so large that although this phenomenon clearly has been occurring in places like SWCC, the black community has simply picked up stakes and relocated, rather than assimilating into nonexistence, which is what the article intimates has occurred in the Pacific Northwest.

[DocAwesome]

I love this part: "Eateries now offer crepes, wood-fired artisan bagels and north-west fusion cuisine". I didn't know that north-west fusion cuisine was a thing. I'll stick to wood-fired artisan bagels.


I never found Philly to be a very diverse city. We have all the pieces, but the sum could be so much greater than the parts if any of the races were to actually talk to each other.

[gren]

I mean, I wouldn't say Black flight. Poor black communities leave when a) they can sell their 1,000sqft house they bought for $30,000 for $200,000 and then they move to the suburbs and get a McMansion or b) get priced out of gentrifying rentals and move to another poor city area or to cheap suburban areas. Middle class blacks follow some of the trends that Middle class whites still follow--a majority end up in the suburbs. Obviously that's oversimplification but the majority of poor Blacks don't want to be in bad neighborhoods. If they can afford escape to a suburb and not the richer areas of cities for better schools and a nicer house than they will.


Also, re: yearning for diversity. I think you get diversity in the inner areas of the city. At 3am you might be sleeping with a lot of white guys as your neighbors but at 6pm you're going to a restaurant run by an Ethiopian-American family. In the suburbs you might have been sleeping around a lot of white guys and then going to Ruby Tuesday (yes, I know there's more than Ruby Tuesday in the suburbs, I lived near Kennett Square). Proximity is important. I think to reduce "diversity" to the inhabitants of the houses is as silly as thinking diversity is the reason to move to a city.

[billy ross]

I love this part: "Eateries now offer crepes, wood-fired artisan bagels and north-west fusion cuisine". I didn't know that north-west fusion cuisine was a thing. I'll stick to wood-fired artisan bagels.


I never found Philly to be a very diverse city. We have all the pieces, but the sum could be so much greater than the parts if any of the races were to actually talk to each other.

I meant non-homogeneous, with distinct communities. Philadelphia is less melting pot, more a Balkanized place with very many different subcultures. Of course there is suspicion and mistrust between the communities, but for a person who really wants to explore cultures, it's a really fun place.

[eldondre]

blacks can choose where to live more than in the past and can now choose places with good schools for their kids. whites aren't having many kids so many don't care about schools. obviously there's more to it, cities are better places to live for those that can choose than in the past, etc. places like rittenhouse are becoming "oh you just have to have a condo down there for weekends" for people with that kind of money. of course, the biggest changes were around temple.

I agree that it would be nice if someone could figure out how to get hispanics to come south of girard and spice up nightlife but if you're paying attention, center city east grew in every category (including hispanic) except black...in other words, it became more diverse. we saw it when we lived there.

[raider.adam]

Philadelphia is so large that although this phenomenon clearly has been occurring in places like SWCC, the black community has simply picked up stakes and relocated, rather than assimilating into nonexistence, which is what the article intimates has occurred in the Pacific Northwest.

The numbers for Philadelphia do not support that. Percentage of black population remained the same from the 2000 and 2010 census.

[CityMaps]

more a Balkanized place

Literally...I've ridden with 2 Albanian cab drivers this month.

wakka wakka wakka

[billy ross]

The numbers for Philadelphia do not support that. Percentage of black population remained the same from the 2000 and 2010 census.

How is what I wrote inconsistent with what you wrote?

[raider.adam]

How is what I wrote inconsistent with what you wrote?

You said the black community in Philadelphia has up and relocated. The black community is in Philadelphia at the same proportions as 10 years ago.

[billy ross]

You said the black community in Philadelphia has up and relocated. The black community is in Philadelphia at the same proportions as 10 years ago.

You always misunderstand me. You claim that I am guilty of doublespeak. In reality you fail to grasp whatever subtlety I throw out there.

Both of the sentiments you expressed above are correct. Think about it. What do you think I meant when I wrote the following?

This gives you a sense of how truly diverse Philadelphia is:

Clearly I meant that Philly is different from the Pacific Northwest. I believe that the vast majority of the time you claim that I have changed my position it is because you jumped over a chasm to an incorrect conclusion as to what my position is, and when I clarify it you claim that I am some kind of chameleon.

[ArcticSplash]

Literally...I've ridden with 2 Albanian cab drivers this month.

wakka wakka wakka

I wonder what happens if a Serbian cab driver encounters an Albanian one coming the other direction? Is it like matter and anti-matter exploding?

[raider.adam]

You always misunderstand me. You claim that I am guilty of doublespeak. In reality you fail to grasp whatever subtlety I throw out there.

Both of the sentiments you expressed above are correct. Think about it. What do you think I meant when I wrote the following?

Clearly I meant that Philly is different from the Pacific Northwest. I believe that the vast majority of the time you claim that I have changed my position it is because you jumped over a chasm to an incorrect conclusion as to what my position is, and when I clarify it you claim that I am some kind of chameleon.

From your post, I did not get at all that you were saying Philadelphia is clearly different from Seattle. It sounded like you were trying to draw parallels.

The last paragraph in your original posts sounded like you were saying the black community has up and left Philadelphia.

[billy ross]

From your post, I did not get at all that you were saying Philadelphia is clearly different from Seattle. It sounded like you were trying to draw parallels.

The last paragraph in your original posts sounded like you were saying the black community has up and left Philadelphia.

Every sentence that I wrote in Post #1 - that is, the first, second, and third sentences written by me, express my belief that Philly is unlike the places mentioned in the article, in that we are inclusive, and not exclusive. I cut and pasted the link, the heading, and some of the body from the article, which I indicated as not being my words by putting quotes around them, and I included my critique of the social forces at work. I made it clear that I am not entirely supportive of the phenomenon described by the article, and that I am glad that what we see of it here is tempered by countervailing forces.

We truly are diverse here. What you find in Boston, you can find here. What you find in Seattle, you can find here. What you find in Cleveland, you can find here. However, the same can't be said for other American cities; Boston and Detroit don't have much in common, for instance. We are very, very far from being one-dimensional, and that article more or less screamed that places like Portland and Seattle are pretty exclusionary. It made me glad to be a part of what is happening here, and to not be a part of what is happening there. With the recent influx of Asian and Mexican immmigrants we are even beginning to take on some of the flavour, in parts of Philly, of other more Southwestern and West Coast cities. If you want to really understand American architecture, you really need to come to Philly, because no other city comes even close to expressing the mosaic of American architecture with the breadth and depth that we do. Now the same is starting to be true of our social and cultural scene. That's exciting to me.

[Jay from Philly]

You said the black community in Philadelphia has up and relocated. The black community is in Philadelphia at the same proportions as 10 years ago.

The Black community dropped 2 percentage points from 44% in 2000 to 42% in 2010. Whites dropped from 40% to 37%. I wouldn't be surprised if the white population bottomed out somewhere in the mid-2000s.

[raider.adam]

The Black community dropped 2 percentage points from 44% in 2000 to 42% in 2010. Whites dropped from 40% to 37%. I wouldn't be surprised if the white population bottomed out somewhere in the mid-2000s.

Both data sources I have looked at have Philadelphia's white population dropping by several points and the black population percentage remaining the same.

[DCnPhilly]

I meant non-homogeneous, with distinct communities. Philadelphia is less melting pot, more a Balkanized place with very many different subcultures. Of course there is suspicion and mistrust between the communities, but for a person who really wants to explore cultures, it's a really fun place.

I've heard people from places like Seattle and San Francisco tout their diversity, but the experience is more like a Benneton ad than an urban League of Nations. Especially in the Pacific Northwest, where even superficial diversity is limited. I've never seen so many white people in one place. Really white. Like, I'm a quarter Greek, and felt ethnic.

Philly's diversity isn't just limited to race and culture, it's also socioeconomic, which I find makes it interesting. A lot of people think they're tolerant until they're dumped in the middle of a place like Philly, and then they really struggle with economic demographics, especially if socieconomic status can be corrleated with race or ethicity.

[Sharkfood]

As usual, Philadelphia is bucking a national trend. I can't think of another city where the number of blacks remained constant between 2000 and 2010.

The cities that lost population saw big declines in black population (Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore).

The cities that gains population saw a decline in black population (New York, Boston, Washington).

Philadelphia seems to be the only city where the population remained stable.

It is true that there is massive black flight from inner city Philadelphia with a few exceptions (such as Gray's Ferry), but that is
being offset by massive gains in the Northeast.

[newphil]

Yes but the overall black pop in the metro area and state grew. If they we staying int he city their city pop/% would have increased, but it hasn't. Look at Upper Darby and the burbs on the other side of Chelt Ave...they have turned solid black...its happening here and will be very noticable in 10 years...I also suspect that the black migration back to the south, seen this census in almost every major northern city, will pick up momentum in Philly this decade. We always lag in trends...

[ArcticSplash]

As usual, Philadelphia is bucking a national trend. I can't think of another city where the number of blacks remained constant between 2000 and 2010.

The cities that lost population saw big declines in black population (Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore).

The cities that gains population saw a decline in black population (New York, Boston, Washington).

Philadelphia seems to be the only city where the population remained stable.

It is true that there is massive black flight from inner city Philadelphia with a few exceptions (such as Gray's Ferry), but that is
being offset by massive gains in the Northeast.

Don't you people consider the NE to be the suburbs anyway?

[newphil]

Both data sources I have looked at have Philadelphia's white population dropping by several points and the black population percentage remaining the same.

Here..its quite clear the 2010 census for Phila county is 42% black 37% white...just go to phila and set zoom to county level

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

Your confusing with % of city pop and

% change since 2000 these are 2 different stats.