Redesigning the Parkway

[Bleeper]

What the hell is it going to take to get rid of those ridiculous little league fields on the Parkway?


Talk about a waste of prime real estate. Only in Philadelphia.Unbelievable.

[phillyaggie]

That's why it's being programmed with activities such as the tango in the square, and the science festival. And now with this new park, hopefully we can expect more families with strollers along the southern end of the Parkway.

The Barn on the Parkway would have so much more heft if it addressed its presence on the Parkway and near Logan Square rather than have its ass facing it, that too nicely covered by trees and a landscaped garden so the museum feels hidden and out of the city and its street life. If they could program that landscaped garden with a destination restaurant (no, not a fast-food and coffee cafe like Cafe Cret) that brings the building to the Parkway and has spectacular patio/outdoor seating with a view of the skyline... that would bring more people to cross the Logan Square and the Parkway and add a hang out spot to the northern side of the Square. The key is to market it as a sexy spot for Center City/Rittenhouse set urbanites rather than the old blue haired ladies who drive in from the suburbs and drive right back out.

[phillyaggie]

What the hell is it going to take to get rid of those ridiculous little league fields on the Parkway?


Talk about a waste of prime real estate. Only in Philadelphia.Unbelievable.

obviously it's not prime enough real estate for some developer to buy it and also buy out his/her political opponents by paying off strategic folks and then build something of significance there.

in short, in philly landscape, those ball fields are just fine use. Unless there is another private collection in the suburbs that wants to move to the Parkway and fill some space there.

[DCnPhilly]

obviously it's not prime enough real estate for some developer to buy it and also buy out his/her political opponents by paying off strategic folks and then build something of significance there.

in short, in philly landscape, those ball fields are just fine use. Unless there is another private collection in the suburbs that wants to move to the Parkway and fill some space there.

I don't mind the ballpark, in fact I wish the Parkway had more recreational facilities. I used to play volleyball on the National Mall near the Lincoln Memorial, and I'm pretty sure there's a ballpark there too. There's plenty of room to develop on the grid around the Parkway, I personally like its abundance of greenspace. I wish people had the same appreciation for the parks around the museums when the decided to erect the hideous Park Town Place.

[Voodoo]

I don't mind the ballpark, in fact I wish the Parkway had more recreational facilities. I used to play volleyball on the National Mall near the Lincoln Memorial, and I'm pretty sure there's a ballpark there too. There's plenty of room to develop on the grid around the Parkway, I personally like its abundance of greenspace. I wish people had the same appreciation for the parks around the museums when the decided to erect the hideous Park Town Place.

Agree completely. My only problem is when people park on the grass. Every so often the city cracks down on it, only to see them slowly creep back.

[eldondre]

If that happened, "nearby" would have to mean the numbered streets around Logan Square, southward into CC. The spectacularly ill-thought-out design of the Parkway pretty much cripples it as anything but a thoroughfare for a solemn, hurried walk to and from the museum or other landmarks.

Wasn't the original.al design of the Parkway Intended to end at the sq? I think it would function fine without the traffic circle. Barring a full restoration they could at least eliminate eb vine St. It should be the city's grand sq

[Voodoo]

N.E. corner. Before it was butchered.

[guzzijason]

What the hell is it going to take to get rid of those ridiculous little league fields on the Parkway?


Talk about a waste of prime real estate. Only in Philadelphia.Unbelievable.

I would agree with you, except people actually uses those fields. I think there would be a pretty significant public outcry if someone proposed getting rid of them.

__Jason

[MarketStEl]

Wasn't the original.al design of the Parkway Intended to end at the sq? I think it would function fine without the traffic circle. Barring a full restoration they could at least eliminate eb vine St. It should be the city's grand sq

No. The Parkway was designed to be an extension of Fairmount Park into the heart of the city, and its route had as its terminal points City Hall and the former Fairmount resevoir, on which the Art Museum was erected after the Parkway's construction.

The transformation of Logan Square into a traffic circle was a byproduct of the project - by design.

Confidential to Bleeper: It's parkland, fer Chrissakes. Recreational facilities are an acceptable and accepted use of parkland in every American city. In fact, in most cities, the same municipal department manages parks and recreation - a situation that was not the case here until last year because of the circumstances under which Fairmount Park was created (which, BTW, was to protect the city's water supply by putting the Schuylkill valley off limits to development beyond that which already existed at the time; the underappreciated collection of historic mansions in the park is the result of the land acquisition needed to effect this goal).

[Bob_Head]

What the hell is it going to take to get rid of those ridiculous little league fields on the Parkway?

Talk about a waste of prime real estate. Only in Philadelphia.Unbelievable.

Yes, only in Philadelphia. Because you've never been to Central Park, right?

[Scoats]

What the hell is it going to take to get rid of those ridiculous little league fields on the Parkway?

Families who live in Fairmount use those fields. While they are seemingly out of place, I love how they show that families do live and can thrive in the city. I like the balance.

[phillyaggie]

I don't mind the ballpark, in fact I wish the Parkway had more recreational facilities. I used to play volleyball on the National Mall near the Lincoln Memorial, and I'm pretty sure there's a ballpark there too. There's plenty of room to develop on the grid around the Parkway, I personally like its abundance of greenspace. I wish people had the same appreciation for the parks around the museums when the decided to erect the hideous Park Town Place.

That's all fine and dandy--there are baseball diamonds and soccer pitches and basketball courts in other parts of the park-- on both sides of the river. Looking at that image of the plan, it seems obvious to me that the BFP was meant as a grand civic avenue lined with civic and cultural institutions, not play fields. To the extent that vision didn't happen, we can cry about it or accept the reality of it which is what I was trying to do. Don't you think that if there is another grand art collection or some other civic/cultural building that wants to relocate along the Parkway and wants some of that field space, that they would likely get it? I'd hope so.

[eldondre]

No. The Parkway was designed to be an extension of Fairmount Park into the heart of the city, and its route had as its terminal points City Hall and the former Fairmount resevoir, on which the Art Museum was erected after the Parkway's construction.

The transformation of Logan Square into a traffic circle was a byproduct of the project - by design.

actually, it was not part of the original plan, it was added by greber
The Benjamin Franklin Parkway: Philadelphia’s French Connection — Museum Without Walls
it's a fundamentally flawed design in support of bringing the park into the city isn't it? it doesn't bring the park to the city, it funnels car traffic to city hall. of course, the original in paris isn't all that pleasant either, particularly the traffic circle. not part of the original plan, of course, are the 676 ventilation shafts. perhaps allowing parking around the circle on weekends would help with traffic issues? (namely, families, kids, tourists, and other people trying to use a park with cars flying through the middle of it)

[DCnPhilly]

That's all fine and dandy--there are baseball diamonds and soccer pitches and basketball courts in other parts of the park-- on both sides of the river. Looking at that image of the plan, it seems obvious to me that the BFP was meant as a grand civic avenue lined with civic and cultural institutions, not play fields. To the extent that vision didn't happen, we can cry about it or accept the reality of it which is what I was trying to do. Don't you think that if there is another grand art collection or some other civic/cultural building that wants to relocate along the Parkway and wants some of that field space, that they would likely get it? I'd hope so.

Sure, but I honestly don't find the ballpark out of place. They're pretty common in similar situations in other cities. If the Parkway ever gets architecturally crowded or that block is eyed for a new museum, sure, the ballpark will be relocated. There's plenty of room on the Schuylkill Banks that is just as convenient to the Center City and Fairmount folks who use it. I don't think anyone's fighting to "save the ballpark." The Barnes Museum got juvie hall demolished, I really don't think it would be too hard to displace the ballpark. Someone claimed that the city was hoarding a precious piece of real estate, when the truth of the matter is if someone wanted to develop it, it would already be developed.

[OffenseTaken]

Confidential to Bleeper: It's parkland, fer Chrissakes. Recreational facilities are an acceptable and accepted use of parkland in every American city. In fact, in most cities, the same municipal department manages parks and recreation - a situation that was not the case here until last year because of the circumstances under which Fairmount Park was created (which, BTW, was to protect the city's water supply by putting the Schuylkill valley off limits to development beyond that which already existed at the time; the underappreciated collection of historic mansions in the park is the result of the land acquisition needed to effect this goal).

I'm pretty sure what Bleeper has in mind is that the BFP ought to be a true Haussmann-style boulevard, with architecture on either side to take advantage of the unbeatable location. A baseball diamond makes no use of that location that it couldn't just as easily find in the part of Fairmount where the "park" action really begins, i.e. beyond Boathouse Row. So the question isn't whether it's an "acceptable and accepted" use; that's beyond dispute. It's more like whether it's the most appropriate use. The BFP might be so poorly designed that it could never be that kind of boulevard without a complete reorientation of the infrastructure all around it; but it's at least a worthy goal.

[palvar]

the original in paris isn't all that pleasant either, particularly the traffic circle.

The Champs De Elysees also has stores and offices all along it, rather than museums and Corbusier apartments.

[OffenseTaken]

The Champs De Elysees also has stores and offices all along it, rather than museums and Corbusier apartments.

Sadly, the designers chose the stretch of the Champs-Elysées between the Place de la Concorde and the Avenue Montaigne as their basis, which isn't nearly as nice as the Champs-Elysées of fame and fable (and your photo). In fact, it's a lot like the BFP: a highway with some grass on either side. (EDIT: Here's a look: http://g.co/maps/qy2az)

Also, it bears pointing out that the cross streets meet the Champs-Elysées at right angles, which (1.) makes development a whole lot easier, and (2.) maintains the continuity of the street, so you don't have these weird trapezoidal patches of no-man's land like you do on the Parkway.

I agree with you 100%, but these things needed mentioning.

[hammersklavier]

The original BFP plan had right-angled intersections north of Vine as well. Not sure when that was changed.

I am in agreement that the van Colln etc. fields can be moved north of the Parkway (but not that far) and still serve their purpose if redevelopment pressure mounts on their sites. But for that to happen policy would need to orient the upper Parkway to development. Right now policy doesn't really orient it to development at all, instead preferring to lump underutilized "parks" all along it, all the way from Blanche P. Levy (the park with Café Cret in it) up to the van Colln ballfields.

The grander goal really needs to be for the lower Parkway to be pedestrianized with concomitant development happening on what is currently ancillary green spaces (the pedestrianized Parkway becoming the primary green space); the traffic circle through Logan Square closed and the Square itself reunited; and the upper Parkway reoriented as an urban boulevard interspeckled with existing museums. I particularly want to see the small block between the Parkway and Park Towne Place (really, there's a street with that name) and the fmr. Calder Museum proposal site redeveloped first; after that, the two greenspaces on either side of the Rodin Museum; then the ballfields on the river side of the Parkway; and finally van Colln itself. More development can fill in if Eakins Oval is realigned.

The Champs De Elysees also has stores and offices all along it, rather than museums and Corbusier apartments.

There is no reason the Parkway should not look like that.

[DCnPhilly]

The original BFP plan had right-angled intersections north of Vine as well. Not sure when that was changed.

I am in agreement that the van Colln etc. fields can be moved north of the Parkway (but not that far) and still serve their purpose if redevelopment pressure mounts on their sites. But for that to happen policy would need to orient the upper Parkway to development. Right now policy doesn't really orient it to development at all, instead preferring to lump underutilized "parks" all along it, all the way from Blanche P. Levy (the park with Café Cret in it) up to the van Colln ballfields.

The grander goal really needs to be for the lower Parkway to be pedestrianized with concomitant development happening on what is currently ancillary green spaces (the pedestrianized Parkway becoming the primary green space); the traffic circle through Logan Square closed and the Square itself reunited; and the upper Parkway reoriented as an urban boulevard interspeckled with existing museums. I particularly want to see the small block between the Parkway and Park Towne Place (really, there's a street with that name) and the fmr. Calder Museum proposal site redeveloped first; after that, the two greenspaces on either side of the Rodin Museum; then the ballfields on the river side of the Parkway; and finally van Colln itself. More development can fill in if Eakins Oval is realigned.

There is no reason the Parkway should not look like that.

I like it. It's a little dreamy, but I like it. I think some of the (now dead) residential proposals for the Parkway - Barnes Tower, Granary's tower, Intercontinental, and others I can't think of - might have put enough pedestrians on the street to make some of these ideas feasible. Right now the Parkway and Logan Square serve solely as a route to and from the museums and Center City leaving the greenspace in between to serve as little more than outdoor recreation.

I'm fine with that - for now - but i wouldn't mind seeing a little more development near the sidewalks. Honestly, the new trees and bike trails they have been installing have really transformed the area as a more formal park exponentially. Every time I walk up there I think, "PHILADELPHIA'S doing this??" Whoever's managing the budget for those improvements needs to be working on the rest of the city too.

[eldondre]

Interspeckled
The granary development is moving forward.