Its ugly, but its going to be used...

**mixiboi** · 10-25-2010, 11:21 AM

Ugly is so opinionated, as this thing won awards for its design...

But god, those windows are so tiny...

Brownstoner - Philadelphia: CC Affordable Build Almost Done

1. It's in the center of the block. It fronts an alley, and a very small one at that. Massive buildings like the Loews Hotel, SEPTA headquarters, and a large church block the view from any major street. It doesn't need to be pretty. It needs to be functional.

2. I had a chance to tour it last month. It's perfectly nice inside. The apartments have windows and look as nice as any modern college dorm room, but with a much nicer kitchen. There are some nice modern design touches.

3. The design of the building is guided largely by the need to be both affordable and LEED-certified (which in turn will make it affordable to maintain.) That's what makes a project like this possible. The goal is getting people off the streets.

4. It has a green roof, with a very nice patio in the center for residents to enjoy. Being in the middle of the block, there aren't sweeping vistas, but it's quite nice. You can see Phillies stadium from up there. I'd love to have a roof patio like that.

**Insoluble** · 10-25-2010, 11:41 AM

Meh, It doesn't much matter that this is ugly since it's squirreled away in the middle of the block and on one will ever see it except for the people who use it. Besides, you know that if this looked nice then people would just be ranting that homeless get to live in a nicer building then middle class taxpayers, etc, etc.

**CHIOSSO** · 10-25-2010, 11:44 AM

Its a giant bum magnet.

**desolate** · 10-25-2010, 11:53 AM

One of the comments is that it lacks first floor retail.

hahahahaha.. how many vacant "first floor retail" do we have in Center City in our new "forced to have first floor retail" buildings.

Second, you don't let poor people live in your core ... or expect to not have the demand required to have first floor retail everywhere.

Thankfully low income residents will have lots of targeted retail on Market East!

**raider.adam** · 10-25-2010, 11:53 AM

I am sure I will be beat up for this, but does it make sense to build an affordable apartments tower by a non-profit at 12th and Chestnut? That's a lot of property tax revenue to be losing. Plus, for the amount of money to build there, you'd think you could build more units in a cheaper area.

**ZARK** · 10-25-2010, 01:55 PM

Kind of reminds me of some sort of modern prison building..

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-25-2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

I am sure I will be beat up for this, but does it make sense to build an affordable apartments tower by a non-profit at 12th and Chestnut? That's a lot of property tax revenue to be losing. Plus, for the amount of money to build there, you'd think you could build more units in a cheaper area.

Of course it makes no sense. Who's bright idea was this to have uglyosity plopped where it doesn't belong?

**seand** · 10-25-2010, 02:06 PM

It really does look like a modern prison.

**raider.adam** · 10-25-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by seand

It really does look like a modern prison.

Yeah, it does look like a cheaper version of the federal detention center.

if I were the LEED people, probably not a building to put in their portfolio. It'll scare people away from building under the guidelines. I hope LEED doesn't turn into the modern Brutalist.

**thoth** · 10-25-2010, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Of course it makes no sense. Who's bright idea was this to have uglyosity plopped where it doesn't belong?

The development is the result of a partnership between homeless advocacy orgs Project H.O.M.E. and Bethesda Project, and it will have 79 single-resident units.

It's bum storage. Given that CC probably has the most visible homelessness, it's not the absolute worst. It's not like they're going to leave the core, that's where money is. Or you get a tent city like Camden had.

**Hospitalitygirl** · 10-25-2010, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

It's bum storage. Given that CC probably has the most visible homelessness, it's not the absolute worst. It's not like they're going to leave the core, that's where money is. Or you get a tent city like Camden had.

Thank you for the details.

But, ugh, smack in the middle of town.

**thoth** · 10-25-2010, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Thank you for the details.

But, ugh, smack in the middle of town.

I think Bon Jovi paid for it, if that makes any better.

**gone down south** · 10-25-2010, 03:11 PM

Isn't one of the core tenents of LEED building to have lots of large windows for natural light?

**eldondre** · 10-25-2010, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl

Thank you for the details.

But, ugh, smack in the middle of town.

there's one at 20th and sansom as well.
actually, first floor retail for something like back HOME cafe would be interesting. it is pretty ugly

**Insoluble** · 10-25-2010, 03:32 PM

You guys do realize where this thing is right? On Clover Street between the Church and PSFS. It's essentially a tiny back ally that only goes between 13th and 12th thats completely invisible from any of the main streets, not exactly a viable spot for ground floor retail. Google Maps street view won't even show you clover (it'll bring you to Chestnut instead). If this thing will take some of the homeless off of Market and Chestnut and give them a home, that's a total win in my book.

**raider.adam** · 10-25-2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Insoluble

You guys do realize where this thing is right? On Clover Street between the Church and PSFS. It's essentially a tiny back ally that only goes between 13th and 12th thats completely invisible from any of the main streets, not exactly a viable spot for ground floor retail. Google Maps street view won't even show you clover (it'll bring you to Chestnut instead). If this thing will take some of the homeless off of Market and Chestnut and give them a home, that's a total win in my book.

According to the article it is affordable housing, not a homeless shelter. I doubt it will have any impact on the homeless population in CC.

I don't care about the lack of ground floor retail.

**thoth** · 10-25-2010, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

According to the article it is affordable housing, not a homeless shelter. I doubt it will have any impact on the homeless population in CC.

I don't care about the lack of ground floor retail.

Yeah but it's not like PHA affordable housing where you'll have whatever family that got on the waiting list living there. It's targeted at the homeless, hence why Project HOME is involved:

The Connelly House (previously referred to as the St. John the Evangelist House), which will provide 79 units of permanent affordable housing for formerly homeless men and women in Center City Philadelphia.

It's no condo, but I think CC can probably handle it. Project HOME units are usually run fairly well.

**hammersklavier** · 10-25-2010, 04:58 PM

That tiny back lot (between 1234, PSFS, a church, and some stuff fronting Chestnut) dead in the middle of the block just isn't viable for anything much. The paneling of the teensy part you can see from 13th matches paneling that's on the back side of PSFS. It is an incredibly well camouflaged building hiding back there. Project H.O.M.E. is currently pretty well-run. And of course, it gives the bums in Dilworth Plaza and Love Park somewhere to go.

**Insoluble** · 10-25-2010, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

According to the article it is affordable housing, not a homeless shelter.

My bad. I'm not sure why I thought it was a shelter. The point still stands though that there isn't much else this lot could be used for.

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

That tiny back lot (between 1234, PSFS, a church, and some stuff fronting Chestnut) dead in the middle of the block just isn't viable for anything much. The paneling of the teensy part you can see from 13th matches paneling that's on the back side of PSFS. It is an incredibly well camouflaged building hiding back there. Project H.O.M.E. is currently pretty well-run. And of course, it gives the bums in Dilworth Plaza and Love Park somewhere to go.

This.

**stock** · 10-25-2010, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by gone down south

Isn't one of the core tenents of LEED building to have lots of large windows for natural light?

No. That's more in line with Passavie House which is really they way things need to be going. LEED is marketing and to get certified, you have to cut down a forest for the paperwork.

Here is quick example. If you keep an existing structure (brick home) and reclaim all the wood joists etc... then remodel, you get the same points if you demolished the home, built a new one and put a bike rack out front. It's asinine. The energy used to make new stuff is 1000's of times more than if you used reclaimed.